Growing up gay in the church
Myths vs. personal experienceG
rowing up in the church when you’re gay isn’t much fun. Actually, I’m convinced through conversations with my friends that growing up as a gay teenager isn’t usually fun whatever your background. It can be a very lonely and depressing experience. The whole world is constantly letting you know how unaccepted you are, and how wrong you are, how disgusting you are. It all eats away at you. The strong are left feeling alone, the rest actually start to believe what they hear, and begin to hate themselves as much as they perceive the world hates them.
The whole world is constantly letting you know how unaccepted you are, and how wrong you are, how disgusting you are.
As a gay Christian I have encountered many myths surrounding homosexuality, especially in the church, so I think it would useful to address a few of them.
Myth 1: It’s all about sex.
Sex is often the only thing that is discussed when we talk about homosexuality. There is far more to being heterosexual than having sex, and there is similarly far more to being homosexual or bisexual than having sex. It affects all kinds of areas of relationships, personality and life options. For many gay people the strongest aspect of their sexuality that they will experience in their life won’t be sex, but rather love. Sexuality even affects style and culture issues, although these are often over-stereotyped. I lost track of the number of times I was warned off a certain genre of music or a certain style of car because it was ‘gay’. Some of these are to do with evolved culture around the gay community, but some of them go deeper than that, and are in fact an expression of what is different about us. Being gay means far more in my life than simply who I’d like to have sex with.
Myth 2: You can’t be gay and Christian.
Of course you can be. The essentials of being gay, (and at this point I’m using the term to describe a state of identity, rather than life style) don’t in any way conflict with the essentials of being a Christian. The assumption that the two aren’t compatible is based on a whole series of misunderstandings, including some of those listed below.
Myth 3: There aren’t any gay people in the church, or at least in my church.
I believed this for most of my life, despite the fact that I myself was the evidence to the contrary. I believed I was absolutely the only gay person in church. Most of the people in my church talked about homosexuality in a way that made it clear they were talking about those outside the church. It really wasn’t until I ‘came out’ that I began to discover just how many gay people there were in church. Some of them I’d known for several years.
Studies tell us that the number of gay people in society is anything between 5% (number of people who are openly gay in a recent UK study) and 32% (from a US study showing number of people who will have some level of same-sex interaction at some point in their life). Generally 10% is accepted as a reasonable average. If you have more that 10 people in your church, odds are some of them might be gay. More than two thirds of my gay friends are Christians.
Myth 4: Being gay is a choice.
This myth is fading fast, but it still exists in some people’s understanding. If you are gay you know that it’s not a choice. Why would anyone make that choice? It’s not like being gay is an appealing option for people in a society such as ours. I and most other gay people I know, made every effort to choose to be heterosexual. It didn’t work. We may get to choose how we deal with being gay, but we don’t choose to be gay. Of course some people who are bisexual may find their attractions fairly evenly split between same-gender and opposite gender. In those cases the individual does have some choice in how they express that, although they didn’t choose to be bisexual.
There are various theories on the factors that go into forming a person’s sexuality. Some scientists have suggested genetics, but this hasn’t been clearly demonstrated. Some suggest it’s to do with hormonal balances during foetal or early childhood development. Some suggest it’s psychological (of the mind) and associated with early childhood development, but others believe they can demonstrate that it’s physiological (of the physical body). There is also some evidence to suggest that different people are gay or bisexual for different reasons.
The thing is, no-one really has the answer yet. Is it “nature or nurture”? We don’t know, and broadly speaking it doesn’t matter, because it doesn’t alter the fact that it isn’t a choice.
Myth 5: Sexuality can be altered.
The scientific community, psychological community and a growing number of Christians believe that in most cases sexuality is fixed from an early age, and cannot be changed. I say most cases because there are a few reasons, which I won’t go into here, as to why someone may adopt a gay lifestyle without being gay, and counselling or a change in circumstances can deal with those issues. However, those cases account for a very small percentage of the gay population.
It is possible that you can change your behaviour, and act contrary to your own nature. Many people try to do this. However, the evidence from people who have been through programmes to ‘cure’ homosexuality has shown overwhelming that it doesn’t alter your underling sexuality and it doesn’t alter your attractions. It is also true that most people can only keep up this attempt at an outward life that is contrary to their inward lives in the short term.
I have several friends who have been through ‘treatment’ to try and make them straight. This ranges from weekly prayer meetings in order to cast out demons, to intense counselling. I’ve even heard of people going through electric shock therapy. Most of this has taken several months, or in some cases several years of their lives. Apart from messing with their head for a while, and completely eroding what was left of their self-confidence, it really hasn’t changed anything in the long term.
As I’ve said, we don’t know what determines sexuality, but most professionals agree that it is fixed, either from pre-birth or very early childhood. Either way, by the time most people become aware of their sexuality, there isn’t anything that can be done to change it.
Given this understanding of homosexuality, we maybe need to think again about how we as Christians respond to gay or bisexual people in our own midst, and about how we respond to people outside the church who are gay. I think it’s a good sign that things are changing, that when I finally told my friends at Church that I was gay, the vast majority were very loving, open and accepting of me. That came as some surprise because for years I thought I had reason to suspect otherwise.
…we maybe need to think again about how we as Christians respond to gay or bisexual people in our own midst, and about how we respond to people outside the church who are gay.
The gospel of Jesus is about good news for all people. It’s about the promise and assurance of unconditional love, acceptance and salvation. In the Salvation Army we believe strongly in social justice and in reaching out to those on the margins of society.
The gospel of Jesus is about good news for all people. It’s about the promise and assurance of unconditional love, acceptance and salvation.
For too long, the gay community has been marginalised in societies all over the world, not least in developing world contexts. They have been rejected and brutalised by society. In western society things have gotten a lot better recently but the overtones of disapproval and rejection are still to be seen around us.
The thing that saddens me the most is that the one place people who experience this rejection should be able to come for safety, is the place that can be one of the biggest perpetrators of this bigotry; The church. A gay teenager will find more love and acceptance from most other parts of society today then they will in some of our churches, and that’s regrettable.
It’s not, in the first instance, a matter of theological discussion as to whether we believe a ‘homosexual lifestyle’ is acceptable or not. Sexual ethics are important in the Christian faith, but they should not be considered the major theological issues. The major issues that we should be considering when dealing with gay people in the church and in society are the issues of love, grace, acceptance, salvation and justice.
The major issues that we should be considering when dealing with gay people in the church and in society are the issues of love, grace, acceptance, salvation and justice.
Of course there are issues of theology and sexual, or more specifically relationship ethics to consider in how we, as gay Christians, should live our lives. The international church is putting a lot of time into arguing about them at the moment. Some say that the bible makes clear statements against the practice of homosexuality. Some say that the statements the bible makes are not clear when you look at them in their context, and that society’s understanding of sexuality has moved significantly in the last few hundred years so the biblical texts need to be re-evaluated. The arguments are complex, and anyone who says otherwise hasn’t read enough!
The simple truth that we can all agree on is that we all live in grace, regardless of who we are, or what we’ve done. More than that, there is no place for a person feeling guilty or rejected simply because of their identity. Nowhere in the bible does it even suggest that being gay in and of itself, is sinful.
The simple truth that we can all agree on is that we all live in grace, regardless of who we are, or what we’ve done.
All of us, regardless of gender, race, sexuality, creed (beliefs), nationality, social background… all of us are created in the image of the same God, and we all have something unique to show the world about who God is.
I find it intriguing that gay society in the 70s adopted the rainbow as what is now one of our most well known symbols. Many Christians were upset that their symbol of God’s promise to the world had been hijacked. The gay community largely chose the rainbow because of its many colours, and we wanted to symbolise diversity in humanity. However, I see it as largely prophetic that this promise of God’s eternal and irrevocable love, grace and mercy to humanity is chosen as the banner for this particular community.
So no, growing up as a gay person in the church isn’t always fun, but if this is you, you can be sure that you’re not the only one, and you are in no way compromised as a person, or a Christian, for being gay. If you’re part of the majority of the church, and of society, in that you are heterosexual, please don’t make the common mistake of assuming you don’t know any gay people. You almost certainly do. We are your friends, in some cases your family, and we are your brothers and sisters in Christ.
We are your friends, in some cases your family, and we are your brothers and sisters in Christ.
27 Comments to Growing up gay in the church
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Thanks for your honesty. I wish that our Army culture were accepting enough that you felt you could attach your name to this - not because I need you to be identified, but because the fact that you need to remain anonymous doesn’t speak well of us.
Please continue to speak out, whether anonymous or not. It helps a great deal to hear from you because a lot of people really do care.
I wish you peace and joy.
This is a hard one for me - my biblical / theological understanding re: same-sex attraction is basically pretty standard, evangelical - yet we have gay and lesbian people who attend our church and in fact, the last ‘adherent’ (first level of church membership) we accepted at our church is a transsexual…how is one affirming, without condoning? How can the church truly become a safe place - a ’sanctuary’ - and not simply a place where there is a pervasive culture of fear to the degree that people like the author of this piece, feel that they can be accepted and become vulnerable without getting slammed for it? The best thing I ever read on the whole gay/lesbian/same-sex debate is the chapter in Tony Campolo’s recent book “Speaking My Mind” - in my opinion, a brilliant and honest piece.
Amy…
Thanks for your encouragement. Whilst my identity isn’t attached to this article, I am reasonably open with most people in The Salvation Army Corps I attend. Most people in my church will know that I’m gay now, and by enlarge they’ve been very supportive. I think the fact that most of them have known me for several years prior to my “coming out” to them has helped with that fact. They know me… I’m not just “the gay one”, I’m Matt.
As for the theological understanding that Geoff refers to. I’ve had a pretty tough time with that myself, but that discussion is maybe for a later time. I think that for me, as a gay person within The Salvation Army and the wider Christian church, the theological issues are important now, but for most of my life they’ve not been nearly as important as the question as to whether or not I would be accepted by my friends and by the church, if they knew I was gay. Would I be able to perform the same function within church life? Would my friends still go out for dinner with me alone? Would they still go to the gym with me or stay in hotel rooms with me when I travel for work? Would they want to work with me at all? Every joke, every derogatory statement eats away at you. Life as a closeted gay Christian is indeed a tough one, and I think I had a relatively easy ride in comparison to some people I know.
I came out at the age of 27, and was amazed, truly, at how accepting my friends and church were. There was a long time before that though when I feared the worst.
Now that’s out of the way with, I feel I can now start to really address the theological issues openly for the first time in my life… but only once the issue of acceptance had been dealt with. I think the church is often too quick to turn the discussion around to one of theology, lifestyle and choices, whilst not taking the time make sure gay people know they are accepted equally, as people.
Matt - good distinction between “theology” vs “acceptance” - this is a really important point and as you have pointed out, one that the church has often - usually? - gotten the wrong way around.
Geoff,
For me, I think it goes beyond the “theology” vs “acceptance” definition, and I didn’t really explain this properly in my last comment. I guess we’d all struggle to really adopt a mindset that says we’re going to put aside theology, and just accept everyone as they are. By virtue of the fact we’re reading articles on this site, suggests that theology is important to all of us.
The bigger question that I think about is; are sexual ethics (which is what we usually end up talking about on the issue of homosexuality) really the most important aspects of theology that we should be addressing here? Acceptance, grace, love, respect, mercy, grace and justice are all theological issues for me as well. I would suggest that all of these are more important than sexual ethics, yet we appear to skip past them and jump straight to the question of “do we agree with the practice of homosexuality?”
Which is not to say that last question isn’t important. It is, particularly in my life! It’s just helpful to keep it in perspective. A lot of Christian friends, when they find out I’m gay, ask the honest question: “How does that fit in with your faith?”. The reality is that the vast majority of my ‘faith’ (however that’s defined) has little to do with my sexuality and therefore isn’t affected at all.
That said, at the end of the day, for someone who is gay such as myself, the question of sexual ethics, will ultimately be an important one. In my case its first importance is to do with how my theological opinions on sexuality fit in with my wider understanding of the character of God, and the nature of humanity… and once we get onto that, I could be here all day!
Oh come on, Matt, don’t leave us hanging!What are your theological ideas about sexuality? How do they jibe with your understanding of the character of God, esp. God as creator?I’m thinking we need another article from you.
The most helpful thing you wrote in your piece, from my perspective, is that homosexuality isn’t all about sex. How did I miss that all these years, even though I have had many gay friends throughout my life? Maybe I knew it, but needed to be reminded. Anyway,is the problem really being gay or is it practicing gay sex? I only have issue with the sex part, though I would like to read theological reflection on the rest of it all - speculations on God’s purposes, thoughts about the nature of humanity, etc.
I’m not saying anything new: I think there is a problem with any sex outside man/woman marriage, no matter who is involved. Because of that I have great compassion for Christians who are gay. For that matter, I guess I feel for anyone who longs for that intamacy but doesn’t find a spouse.If that sounds at all patronizing then I have misrepresented myself.
I’m so glad you have spoken out, Matt, and I really hope to hear more from you.
Peace to you.
Matt
I appreciate your thoughts and your honesty, I am a recovering Christian, also part of The Salvation Army, You had some very valid points and I certainly underatand your feelings of fear and anxiety growing up feeling gay in the church. I would like to express to you some of my own thoughts however, and appreciate your feedback.
1. First of all you are correct, homosexuality is not about sex, in fact it has very little to do with sex it is more about unmet emotional needs that have become psycho sexualized in our minds, in otherwords meeting legitimate healthy emotional needs in unhealthy emotional ways. I believe that for men same sex attraction is our search for our masculininity, for women it is more of a rejection of their feminity. it is a little more complicted than that but that is a readers digest version
2. I would disagree with you on wether or not it is a choice. Alebeit the complex emotional traumas that later in life manifests itself as same sex attraction, occurs at such an early age that choice is not pehaps the best termanology to use. But I do belive that it is nuture not nature that results in same sex attraction.
3. You are correct God grace is sufficient, his grace and mercy always prevails, there is no need for undo shame because you are gay, Christ died once for all, His grace and mercy are available to all who seek it regardless of who we are or what we have done.
4. There is a vast difference between being gay and living gay, while my nuturing was not my choice, what I now choose and do is entirely within my control. ” When I was a child I thought and reasoned as a child, but now I am an adult” I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that any choices that we make as christians must be with the word of God as the measure by which we make it. The worlds understanding of sexual ethics and God understanding are vastly different. I believe that the only form of sexual behavior acceptable for the sincere christian is one man one woman within marriage, anything else is not part of God’s plan and therefore abstinence should be the rule.
5. I have never liked lableing, I do not like the term”gay christian” because it is an oxymoron, nor do I refer to myself as ex-gay, because I was not created Gay, I believe I was created as a part of God’s Hetrosexual community designed to reflect the image of God. Because we live in a fallen imperfect world we are broken, bent, but healing is available to all who seek it because “God so Loved the world”. I am a Christian who has sought and continues to seek emotional, physical, and spiritual healing, no different from any other christian man or woman. I reach out to the “gay” community with the love of Jesus Christ and the healing message of the gospel. Like all men we have to power to heal ouselves it is only through the blood of Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit that healing is possible.
6. Helaing does not mean that we will become raging hetrosexual, it means we become the man/woman that God created us to be and live and walk in communion with Him and according to His word. for some it may mean marriage, for some it may mean a life of abstinece,i is always about living by faith and not by feeling. (not how we feel but what we know it right) but it will always mean fullfillment in Him.
Well felt the need to express those thoughts, would love to communicate more with you on the subject. My prayers and thoughts are with you.
Matt
What I meant to type in the first line was ” I am a Christian walking in recovery. Sorry about that.
Matt
Last line point 5 “Like all men we have no power to heal ourselves” Got good thoughts just a bad typist! (ha)
Hi Larry,
Thanks for your comments, and I apologies it’s taken me a few days to respond to you, but this is the first chance I’ve had to get to it.
I found your comments to be interesting, and in fact they are similar to those of a friend of mine. I know you take issue with the suggestion that homosexuality is anything other than a condition of nurture or and development. I’m not and expert on this subject, but I listen to those who are, and there are simply too many theories and too much evidence for me to accept that nurture and psychological development alone, are the factors that go in to determining someone’s sexuality. Geneticists, psycho-biologists, psychiatrists and psychologists all around the world are telling us that there is evidence for biological or physiological predetermination of sexuality. That’s not to say there aren’t any nurture, or social factors involved in the complex development and outworking of a persons sexuality, but I don’t agree that you can simply say it’s entirely down to nurture. Even in some cases, where social factors have played a bigger part in determining sexuality, the experts still suggest it’s fixed from an early age, and cannot be changed. Therefore I think it’s unhelpful to suggest that it’s in any way a choice.
That seems to be the only area of evidence that we would disagree on. The other issues I think stem from a theological understanding of how to deal with sexuality. I appreciate your clarification of the nature of the ‘healing’ in your 6th paragraph, because I know that many Christian groups who talk about ‘healing’ or ‘curing’ homosexuality, lead you to believe that the basic sexual orientation can be changed. There is very little evidence that this can be achieved. What can be achieved, of course, is a change of behaviour, and a method of dealing with your desires, and controlling your lifestyle, to not reflect your homosexual orientation. I know several people who believe this is the correct course of action for any Christian who struggles with this issue. I have full respect for any gay people who make this choice, as I do for you. This is a difficult choice involving a lot of self discipline and self control, and in many ways self denial. I generally try to show respect for the opinions of people who disagree with me, but that respect is always of a much higher level when that disagreement has a high cost to the other person.
My concerns with going down this road, are that it can be highly oppressive and destructive to the personality of the individual. I have several gay Christian friends. They can largely be split into three categories. Firstly, those who are comfortable with being gay and being Christian. Secondly, those who are taking the road that you have outlined, and thirdly those who have tried that road and not been able to sustain it. The third category is the largest by far. Friends of mine who are in the second and third category have to attend regular support groups, they find it’s a constant struggle to maintain any degree of self esteem. They have lost most of their passion for life, passion for God, passion for anything. They’re constantly having to battle with this huge part of who they are because they believe it’s so wrong.
I guess my main point is, that I don’t see that being gay, (and I’ll leave aside the issue of living a gay lifestyle for the time being) is that wrong. It’s not a choice, it’s a part of who we are. I think that to suggest that we should be ashamed of that, that we should do all we can do deny that, to repent of that, to try and suppress what is such a significant part of our personality and the way we relate to people around us, is a deeply traumatic and difficult process that is entirely unnecessary. The majority of people who try to live this non- gay or ex-gay life (I think 70% from follow up studies of ex-gay movements), have been unable to sustain this for more than 5 years.
Most of my gay Christian friends, as I’ve said, are in the third category (incidentally, I now put myself in the first – I was previously in the unnamed fourth category of keeping your head down and hoping no-one notices your there!). They’ve struggled with huge issues of guilt, self loathing and self doubt though the process of trying to be different to who they are. They’ve become deeply messed up as people, and in some cases very bitter towards God and towards the church. To me this completely misses the point of God’s grace and acceptance. We are all accepted as we are, and there is no guilt associated with our identity.
Contrastingly, my friends who have come to accept being gay and being Christian, and who don’t see there’s a conflict between the two identities, don’t have the same issues of guilt. They don’t have the issues of self esteem or acceptance. They often have huge passion for life and for God, and have a generally healthier emotional and spiritual life.
This is why I say it’s a theological point, because it’s the theological assumption that the identity of ‘being gay’ is in some way sinful. I simply don’t see how it is. I accept however, that you and I probably disagree on this, and I appreciate you taking the time to make this point.
I’m not claiming to have represented who you are or what you’ve been through in my comments here. I’m simply putting forward the experiences of people I know or have read about. I believe that my experience is no more or less valid than anyone else’s, so it’s good to hear an alternative experience portrayed here.
All the Best
Matt
Hi Larry,
Thanks for your comments, and I apologies it’s taken me a few days to respond to you, but this is the first chance I’ve had to get to it.
I found your comments to be interesting, and in fact they are similar to those of a friend of mine. I know you take issue with the suggestion that homosexuality is anything other than a condition of nurture or and development. I’m not and expert on this subject, but I listen to those who are, and there are simply too many theories and too much evidence for me to accept that nurture and psychological development alone, are the factors that go in to determining someone’s sexuality. Geneticists, psycho-biologists, psychiatrists and psychologists all around the world are telling us that there is evidence for biological or physiological predetermination of sexuality. That’s not to say there aren’t any nurture, or social factors involved in the complex development and outworking of a persons sexuality, but I don’t agree that you can simply say it’s entirely down to nurture. Even in some cases, where social factors have played a bigger part in determining sexuality, the experts still suggest it’s fixed from an early age, and cannot be changed. Therefore I think it’s unhelpful to suggest that it’s in any way a choice.
That seems to be the only area of evidence that we would disagree on. The other issues I think stem from a theological understanding of how to deal with sexuality. I appreciate your clarification of the nature of the ‘healing’ in your 6th paragraph, because I know that many Christian groups who talk about ‘healing’ or ‘curing’ homosexuality, lead you to believe that the basic sexual orientation can be changed. There is very little evidence that this can be achieved. What can be achieved, of course, is a change of behaviour, and a method of dealing with your desires, and controlling your lifestyle, to not reflect your homosexual orientation. I know several people who believe this is the correct course of action for any Christian who struggles with this issue. I have full respect for any gay people who make this choice, as I do for you. This is a difficult choice involving a lot of self discipline and self control, and in many ways self denial. I generally try to show respect for the opinions of people who disagree with me, but that respect is always of a much higher level when that disagreement has a high cost to the other person.
My concerns with going down this road, are that it can be highly oppressive and destructive to the personality of the individual. I have several gay Christian friends. They can largely be split into three categories. Firstly, those who are comfortable with being gay and being Christian. Secondly, those who are taking the road that you have outlined, and thirdly those who have tried that road and not been able to sustain it. The third category is the largest by far. Friends of mine who are in the second and third category have to attend regular support groups, they find it’s a constant struggle to maintain any degree of self esteem. They have lost most of their passion for life, passion for God, passion for anything. They’re constantly having to battle with this huge part of who they are because they believe it’s so wrong.
I guess my main point is, that I don’t see that being gay, (and I’ll leave aside the issue of living a gay lifestyle for the time being) is that wrong. It’s not a choice, it’s a part of who we are. I think that to suggest that we should be ashamed of that, that we should do all we can do deny that, to repent of that, to try and suppress what is such a significant part of our personality and the way we relate to people around us, is a deeply traumatic and difficult process that is entirely unnecessary. The majority of people who try to live this non- gay or ex-gay life (I think 70% from follow up studies of ex-gay movements), have been unable to sustain this for more than 5 years.
Most of my gay Christian friends, as I’ve said, are in the third category (incidentally, I now put myself in the first – I was previously in the unnamed fourth category of keeping your head down and hoping no-one notices your there!). They’ve struggled with huge issues of guilt, self loathing and self doubt though the process of trying to be different to who they are. They’ve become deeply messed up as people, and in some cases very bitter towards God and towards the church. To me this completely misses the point of God’s grace and acceptance. We are all accepted as we are, and there is no guilt associated with our identity.
Contrastingly, my friends who have come to accept being gay and being Christian, and who don’t see there’s a conflict between the two identities, don’t have the same issues of guilt. They don’t have the issues of self esteem or acceptance. They often have huge passion for life and for God, and have a generally healthier emotional and spiritual life.
This is why I say it’s a theological point, because it’s the theological assumption that the identity of ‘being gay’ is in some way sinful. I simply don’t see how it is. I accept however, that you and I probably disagree on this, and I appreciate you taking the time to make this point.
I’m not claiming to have represented who you are or what you’ve been through in my comments here. I’m simply putting forward the experiences of people I know or have read about. I believe that my experience is no more or less valid than anyone else’s, so it’s good to hear an alternative experience portrayed here.
All the Best
Matt
Hi Larry,
Part one..
Thanks for your comments, and I apologies it’s taken me a few days to respond to you, but this is the first chance I’ve had to get to it.
I found your comments to be interesting, and in fact they are similar to those of a friend of mine. I know you take issue with the suggestion that homosexuality is anything other than a condition of nurture or and development. I’m not and expert on this subject, but I listen to those who are, and there are simply too many theories and too much evidence for me to accept that nurture and psychological development alone, are the factors that go in to determining someone’s sexuality. Geneticists, psycho-biologists, psychiatrists and psychologists all around the world are telling us that there is evidence for biological or physiological predetermination of sexuality. That’s not to say there aren’t any nurture, or social factors involved in the complex development and outworking of a persons sexuality, but I don’t agree that you can simply say it’s entirely down to nurture. Even in some cases, where social factors have played a bigger part in determining sexuality, the experts still suggest it’s fixed from an early age, and cannot be changed. Therefore I think it’s unhelpful to suggest that it’s in any way a choice.
That seems to be the only area of evidence that we would disagree on. The other issues I think stem from a theological understanding of how to deal with sexuality. I appreciate your clarification of the nature of the ‘healing’ in your 6th paragraph, because I know that many Christian groups who talk about ‘healing’ or ‘curing’ homosexuality, lead you to believe that the basic sexual orientation can be changed. There is very little evidence that this can be achieved. What can be achieved, of course, is a change of behaviour, and a method of dealing with your desires, and controlling your lifestyle, to not reflect your homosexual orientation. I know several people who believe this is the correct course of action for any Christian who struggles with this issue. I have full respect for any gay people who make this choice, as I do for you. This is a difficult choice involving a lot of self discipline and self control, and in many ways self denial. I generally try to show respect for the opinions of people who disagree with me, but that respect is always of a much higher level when that disagreement has a high cost to the other person.
My concerns with going down this road, are that it can be highly oppressive and destructive to the personality of the individual. I have several gay Christian friends. They can largely be split into three categories. Firstly, those who are comfortable with being gay and being Christian. Secondly, those who are taking the road that you have outlined, and thirdly those who have tried that road and not been able to sustain it. The third category is the largest by far. Friends of mine who are in the second and third category have to attend regular support groups, they find it’s a constant struggle to maintain any degree of self esteem. They have lost most of their passion for life, passion for God, passion for anything. They’re constantly having to battle with this huge part of who they are because they believe it’s so wrong.
Part two…
I guess my main point is, that I don’t see that being gay, (and I’ll leave aside the issue of living a gay lifestyle for the time being) is that wrong. It’s not a choice, it’s a part of who we are. I think that to suggest that we should be ashamed of that, that we should do all we can do deny that, to repent of that, to try and suppress what is such a significant part of our personality and the way we relate to people around us, is a deeply traumatic and difficult process that is entirely unnecessary. The majority of people who try to live this non- gay or ex-gay life (I think 70% from follow up studies of ex-gay movements), have been unable to sustain this for more than 5 years.
Most of my gay Christian friends, as I’ve said, are in the third category (incidentally, I now put myself in the first – I was previously in the unnamed fourth category of keeping your head down and hoping no-one notices your there!). They’ve struggled with huge issues of guilt, self loathing and self doubt though the process of trying to be different to who they are. They’ve become deeply messed up as people, and in some cases very bitter towards God and towards the church. To me this completely misses the point of God’s grace and acceptance. We are all accepted as we are, and there is no guilt associated with our identity.
Contrastingly, my friends who have come to accept being gay and being Christian, and who don’t see there’s a conflict between the two identities, don’t have the same issues of guilt. They don’t have the issues of self esteem or acceptance. They often have huge passion for life and for God, and have a generally healthier emotional and spiritual life.
This is why I say it’s a theological point, because it’s the theological assumption that the identity of ‘being gay’ is in some way sinful. I simply don’t see how it is. I accept however, that you and I probably disagree on this, and I appreciate you taking the time to make this point.
I’m not claiming to have represented who you are or what you’ve been through in my comments here. I’m simply putting forward the experiences of people I know or have read about. I believe that my experience is no more or less valid than anyone else’s, so it’s good to hear an alternative experience portrayed here.
All the Best
Matt
Matt
Thank you for your response it was good to hear back from you. I can appreciate your comments and believe me even though i may takie issue with some of your beliefs and thoughts I have the utmost respect for you and I do believe you love the Lord and want to live a holy life so if any of my comments seem condesending It is not my intent to be so in any way.
As you stated it is hard for you to understand where I have been in my journey and struggle with homosexuality. Let me state at the begining that I do believe, beyond a shadow of a doubt that , homosexuality is sin. But I would like to qualify that by saying it is not sin to be homosexual ,but to act on those feelings is sin ,in that it is disobiedience to “God out side of His law and therefore sin. Unforgiveable? Absolutely not! Can one change I believe so. Heal! Absolutely, but the question is “what does healing look like?” For me it is freedom, freedom from shame,guilt, lonliness, It gave me the power to forgive and be forgiven.
I assume from your testimony that you are a young man in your pehaps late teens or early twenties. I have just turned fifty and spent most of my life rom 13 to 40 torn between two worlds, I identify with many of the thoughts and feelings you shared. Lonliness, isolation, unable to share my thoughts and feelings with anyone, a deep crippling sense of shame and guilt. I always felt that if I tried hard enough I could just stop these feelings, If I worked hard enough for God he would love me and change me.
I was married for twenty years, had five children, had a ministry as an officer, and kept that part of myself well hidden , even from my self. I was acting out but underneath the smooth surface that I presented to the world was a bubbling cauldron of shame, guilt, and fear.
All my external attempts to change myself did not help, i still had these same sex attractions and longings. I finally began to spiral out of control and my worlds began to collide. I could not remain in the pulpit any longer because I knew that I could not lead people until my own life was somehow under control. I was not walking in Christ and I was hurting the people I loved.
I sought healing, a long and difficult process. psycologists said it could not be done, that I needed to accept who I was and learn to live with it, but the more I searched the scriptures for answers, the more I tried to convince myself that God made me this way and rationalize accepting and embracing a lifestyle, the more I found I could not. Time and time again the word called out to me th seek God in his fullness and discover my true selg, the man he created me to be. I chose healing, God led me to Exodus International and I began my own walk out of egypt.
It is a long difficult journey and one that cannot be done without the power of Christ as the motivating force. It means a daily dying to self and living for Christ. It means forgiving, long buried hurts, and facing deep rooted feelings of rejection and fear that you did not even realize you had buried.
My marriage did not survive , but my family did, I have five children all who have stood by and supported me in my walk out. they have watched me face the demons and overcome through the power of christ. I had to make a choice! What legacy was I going to leave behind. I made a decision that generation of sin was going to stop with me. I embrace the real man god created me to be, and chose to walk in obedience, I live now in feedom, I wake in the morning and face an image in the mirror that I can live with and love. God restored that which the locusts had taken, i have self esteem and acceptance,
It is intresting to say that we cannot change! Does that not somehow limit the power of God. To place him and a box and say there are things out of his control. Do we deny the very power of Christ. Or should we say to the alcoholic and drug abuser, since you have an uncontrolable desire to dring it must be the way you were made, embrace it! do we say to the cleptomaniac who cannot help but steal, it must be the way you were made, embrace and steal, I think not. Can we preach the life changing power of Christ and deny the power thereof, Heaven forbid. I have much recommended reading I would like to suggest to you and challenge you to rethink your theological viewpoint,
It is always easier to embrace the feelings, No matter who we are we must always remember that our bent is toward sin, That is what makes us human and that is why Christ died, We need a saviour. God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit or they would die, Satan said surely you will not die you will be like God, and the fruit looked good and they ate. From that moment sin entered the world and we inherited the sin nature. We are all sinners and we all fall short of Gods glory. Christ died to save us from sin, to call us back to Him and the image we were created in. God says walk in obedience, Satan says embrace your feelings, We look and the feelings seem good but lead to death and destruction. The choice is ours. I choose life, life in christ and eternal life in Christ. Is it easy, no, My heart resonates with the words of Paul, I prayed that God would remove this thorn in my side, but God daid my Grace is sufficent for thee! So I walk in grace, I let go of the guilt and shame and embrace the freedom of joy and forgiveness. I wlak in joy and love, mercy and grace, I am nore than I vever thought I could be through the mercy of Christ and at last I live in peace that the world did not give to me and the world cannot take away.
I hope you get this and look forward to continued dialouge with you. I respect you and applaud you for your willingness to continue to seek who you are in Christ Jesus, you are constantly in my thoughts and prayers.
Larry
Found this article challenging and thought-provoking… and have linked to it on my blog (hope you don’t mind).
Kudos for being honest and living honestly… God’s love is truly for the whosoever… whoever that is… its not up to man to define this.
Peace… Live strong for Him
Thomas aka Headphonaught
http://www.nanolog.blogspot.com
Growing up gay in the church
This thought-provoking article from The Rubicon tackles the difficult subject of homosexuality and is well worth a look.
Please feel free to either comment on the article itself, or to post in our fourms if you wish to discuss the matter.
Tags: N…
Found you through the blog of Thomas in Scotland at headphonaught. i enjoyed your post, appreciate your authenticity and agree with what yo say. One of the key things for us to remember is that much interpretations/dogmas etc. came out of a modern, enlighenment thinking. We must also not hold onto beliefs/interpretations so tightly, but with a loose grip so as to be open to God in case we are wrong. YOU are a brave soul and i applaud you! Cheers! Adele
Hey Matt
Haven’t heard back from you in a while. hope you are still reading this site. Love to hear your feedback if you have any. I have some suggested reading for you, hope you get this!
General Homosexuality
101 Frequently Asked Questions About Homosexuality
by Mike Haley
The rhetoric surrounding the acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle is everywhere. Parents have children suddenly “coming out.” Organizations are accused of “intolerance.” And it seems that everyone agrees it’s okay to be gay. Learn how to address the issues surrounding same-sex attraction and its implications for society in this thought-provoking book by a man who’s been there.
More >>
Coming Out of Homosexuality
by Bob Davies and Lori Rentzel
If you’re seeking answers, you’ll find them here. This essential guide is filled with true stories and offers proven strategies that can help anyone exit the homosexual lifestyle. Discover freedom beyond what you may have ever dreamed possible.
More >>
Portraits of Freedom
by Bob Davies with Lela Gilbert
Meet 14 people who offer their stories of sexual transformation as hope-filled examples of how God can change lives. There are no “formulas” here — because the process of healing from homosexuality is complex — but God offers compassion and power toward those seeking escape from the homosexual lifestyle.
Hi Matt,
Came across your article while trying to find where I could listen to a sally army band playing carols!! I wish I could agree that I found love and acceptance in my church. I’m ex salvation army and was more or less forced to leave when I came out to the people in my church. Despite having heard many sermons about how god loves us all it rapidly became apparent that my church didn’t love me when I (I quote) “disappointed” them all by coming out to them. Subsequently I left my church and thankfully there were a handful of people who supported me and tried to guide me back to the army although the majority had made it clear I was no longer welcome or wanted. Having been away from the army for 10 years I finally thought I’d cracked it when I started re-attending another corps with my then partner. Things went well for months and most people worked on “what they didn’t know they couldn’t grieve about” so never asked any questions. It was only after many months of worship that it was casually mentioned to me that I had been prayed for in the prayer meeting. When I asked why I was told that they had prayed for mine and my partner’s “deliverance from sin”. That did it. In that split second I knew that I just couldn’t go back. Again I left and few people contacted me and I was left to drift. To any reading this I urge you to help the gay people in your chusrch and not condemn them. Love them all as God loves them. One of my biggest hurts is that people who knew and loved my as a whole person turned their back on me because of one aspect of my life. It would seem that they could no longer see the person they loved only a gay person. We all sin. There is no way of getting away from that and if you believe you’re leading a sin free life then you’re only fooling yourself. God talks about sin but not about degrees of sin. There is no such thing as a little sin or a big one. It’s clear cut. Sin is sin. However, I don’t see my lifestyle as sin. I love my lord and thank him daily for all the good things he brings to me. I witness openly as a gay christian and ironically enough it would seem that being a christian has far more stigma attached to it than being gay does. I believe that God leads me and leads me to situations, challenges, people and realtionships just as he would if I were straight. There’s no easy answer to this. If anyone has one please let me know!
Andy I hope you read my entries and my testimony, it is difficult in today’s culture when everywhere we turn we are seeing the Gay lifestyle approved as acceptable alternative, where calling sin, sin is considered judgemental and politically incorrect. or we are accused of lacking compassion. but the truth is it is not sinful to be homosexual, it is sin to lie and act on those feelings. It is not the way God created us to be despite how we feel or what we are told! We were created to be a part of his heterosexual community, however we live in a fallen world and sin has consequences, that does not mean however that God’s grace does not still abound. It does for you and for me. There is healing, nothing is impossible with God. He does love you and consider you worthy of love. He wants for you to walk in his grace, and he knows and understands you. I would highly recommend you read Bob Davies Book “coming Out of Homosexuality” it may have answers you are seeking. I hope you keep searching for truth, the truth of his word. “Seek and Ye shall find” that is a promise. I have you in my prayers daily.
Hi Matt
Alltough it’s quite a whyle since last posting on this matter, I’d like to thank you for your honesty.
I am a member of the SA i Sweden, but nowadays I’m active in a part of the Lutheran Church of Sweden.
As you may know, church of Sweden is one of the more liberal churches, also in this matter of sexuality.
This has caused a split between the church and other demoniations, as the Salvation Army, sorry to say.
So, I really hope that the leaders of the army in time will come to another understanding of how to interpret what the Holy Bible says.
Kjell
Wow, I just read this. Thank you for sharing. Since I was young, I always felt that God creates only what is good, holy, or perfect–like him. Yet, babies are born everyday with disease and illness and handicaps. Did our God make them this way? I believe even those things are a product of the sin that has torn the fabric of our created existence. Not a personal, conscious sin; but the sin-nature that is in our world. So while I have known people who have chosen homosexuality (at least for a season), I know that many are born that way. But that is neither the fault of the person or our holy God, but rather the fall.
I don’t know exactly where I stand on all of this. I only know that the Bible has been used to defend and promote slavery, the crusades, and any other number of atrocities, and nowadays we all look back and say, “How could Christians ever have done that, and in the name of God nonetheless!” I dread the thought of a hundred years from now when our descendants will look back on us and echo that thought.
I also would like to ask a question: what do you feel about those (homosexuals included) who say that you cannot be homosexual unless you act upon your homosexual urges, since homosexuality is defined by its expression in sex and in relationships?
Hi Jonathan,
Thanks for your kind words.
I think the question of only being homosexual if you ‘act on your urges’ is actually quite strange, but quite a common one. On one level I understand the question, and on another level it makes no sense to me.
It obviously comes down to how you define sexuality. I have to say that I think that my sexuality is defined by much broader than any sexual activity I may or may not choose to involve myself with. It’s about attraction on a basic level, it’s about how I read the world around me and it’s about how I relate to other people in some cases. Primarily though, it’s about love. The love which I have experienced for people in my life - one person in particular, albeit unrequited - is by far the most powerful expression of my homosexuality that I have ever experienced, and I cannot comprehend how any sexual activity would be more significant than that.
I therefore find the whole thing quite odd to talk about. I don’t know many people who would define themselves as heterosexual purely on the basis of having had sex with a member of the opposite gender. If that is how we define our sexuality then how do we define ourselves prior to being sexually involved with someone? Are we all asexual until that point?
It comes back to one of my earlier points about people making the discussion all about sex, where as I think that sexual activity really isn’t at the top of the list of talking points when it comes to this issue.
Matt
Thanks Matt, I was really just wondering what your opinion on that issue was. I understand that it’s not the most comprehensive stance, but it’s one I’ve heard. Thanks for responding.
I think heterosexuals as well, have a very small picture of what sexuality is.
After reading this several times, I’m still not clear on your view regarding the Salvation Army’s teaching on homosexuality. Maybe you could write another article.
Also, having accidentally spent a few days with my family visiting a relation in the West Village neighborhood of Manhattan during Gay Pride Week (who knew?), I’m curious as to your opinion about what the gay Christian response should be to such events.
Thanks, Matt (and Andy, Nov’06), for sharing from your experience of God’s amazing grace and love as a gay Christian. I’m encouraged to see your testimony expressed so well in this venue.
In my experience — which is very much like yours — most Christians (men in particular) are relatively uninterested in stories of personal experience. Although the Bible is largely a compilation of personal faith stories from which we must carefully tease and construct a “systematic theology”, most people today seem to prefer their theology unsullied by human interest stuff. Please, just the facts.
I admit to being prone to just that kind of sanitary inquiry, even in reconciling my own evangelical faith and homosexuality. I’ve spent 100’s of hours and years of my life studying the Bible on this issue, and I’ve come to some strong theological convictions about God’s good gifts and their loving expression. I’ve also found it easier to live in my perfectly ordered head than venture out into the uncertainty and complexity of real human relationships.
Which again makes your testimony so refreshing. Would that we could all trust ourselves to a loving God and church family to work through the temporary uncertainties together. Would that the church give all gay Christians half a minute to share something of our real world experience of God’s goodness before casting us aside saying, We have no need of you.
All this was written such a long while ago. I still feel I need to thank Matt for all this honesty about being gay and christian. I so wish there would be an open and honest outpouring of love rather than condemnation towards gay people in the church. I am a member of the SA and I can understand the difficulty that is being discussed so wonderfully here. My son is my son and a gift from God. I love him and trust God - I know he doesn’t make mistakes. It isn’t just the gay person who feels severely rejected for being honest, but also the parent who almost feels as judged for wanting their son or daughter to have a loving partner through life. I pray that gay people in our churches will not just leave our churches but stand firm and seek out those that do not condemn. We are there, but we can’t support you unless there is an honesty such as this.
Mum