Rewriting the sermon

… and I feel fine, says Andrea Demchuk

During a recent sermon at my home church (a pretty good one, as evidenced by my bothering to take notes), I wondered about something that was said. This wondering turned into rumination, and then a question developed - but by the time it was properly formulated, the preacher had left the building.

A half hour had elapsed since the end of the sermon, and usually that’s more than enough time for me to engage in lots of conversation. But the sermon is kind of a closed system - a bit of a bubble - and there was, of course, no opportunity to ask a question that would burst that bubble.

This got me to thinking about the sermon format. Isn’t preaching supposed to be teaching?

The training I’ve had in adult education has taught me that “telling isn’t teaching.” So why does the basic sermon format (especially in a part of the church that sees itself as “the priesthood of all believers”) consist of a priest figure standing at the front, telling the rest of us what he/she thinks?

The researcher in me got excited by this problem. So in a completely unscientific survey over a one month period, I asked several preacher practitioners what they thought of the sermon format and whether they thought adding some interactivity the mix would improve things.

Apparently, the pulpit consensus is that things are just fine right now. None of the preachers I canvassed were enthusiastic about fielding questions after their talks; they worried about what they called “second sermons” and how second acts wouldn’t be well-received in the pews.

And as evidenced by another, even more unscientific but wider-ranging follow-up survey, most of us out in the pews don’t seem to be troubled by the lack of opportunity to question or clarify. In fact, raising the issue was seen as odd (right up there with threatening to eliminate the dessert at our meal). More than a few respondents volunteered that they wouldn’t want to preach themselves.

Nobody is much worried that out here in the pews not a lot of lights are going on during sermons. It doesn’t really matter much who is preaching either or whether or not there are video clips or cool graphics on the screen, the messages seem to be getting lost in transission.

But aren’t we supposed to be “the priesthood of all believers”? And if we’re concerned about what Jesus would have done, didn’t he entertain questions and observations from tax collectors, those pesky Pharisees and his mother?

As Geoff Ryan has pointed out, many of those we serve (and more of us than we’d likely admit) are getting what wisdom we have from soap operas and talk shows. Is that what we want?

Writer: A social policy researcher and writer, Andrea Demchuk and her middle-schooler son have been engaged with the church and community of 614 Regent Park (Toronto, Canada) for some years.

Sermon of the word

Thursday, January 10th, 2008 Ecclesia, Think

24 Comments to Rewriting the sermon

In my opinion, you have done a meaningful study.

Dr. Richard Lints, Professor of Theology at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, suggests that even sermon preparation would be more beneficial if done in a group setting. I agree with Dr. Lints, and have experienced his suggestion by studying and preparing with another officer using Skype, via the internet, as the other officer is a couple thousand miles away. The sermon preparation was much less tedious and the conversation and dual study was very helpful to me.

I have also entertained a time after the worship service to allow for discussion and questions. That was also helpful. Those who are of the more traditional church persuasion did not stay, but those who truly engaged the message and were seeking after more than a Sunday feeding, were very excited about the opportunity. We all benefited from the experience.

It’s not healthy for a preacher to hide away, study, and give his or her biased and agenda-filled talk to a crowd without some form of accountability. And the discussion or openness to questions and input will definitely raise the standard of study, preparation, and delivery of biblical teaching.

Many blessings,
Johnny

Johnny on January 10th, 2008

Good to know Johnny.
As a Officer in training I’m always looking for ways to improve corps/church services. I’m going to try that out when I get in the field… also I think that intentional pastoral visits with the congregation and bible studies are important to teaching Christians as well.
Thanks,
Cadet Nathan

Nathan on January 10th, 2008

Andrea, you’re certainly not alone in your questioning of the sermon format, and I myself sometimes am terrified that I seem to have been given the sole responsibility for teaching the members of the congregation here in my appointment. Others simply aren’t prepared to be involved unless I am away from the appointment for some reason.

I like the idea of having constructive discussion as part of the sermon, and if this could be facilitated in an adult and non-critical way it would be a wonderful addition to worship. The danger comes from possible destructive influences that might see this as an opportunity to put their view across regardless of the consequences.

Over the coming months I am intending to introduce a Bible Study format as a regular part of at least one meeting a month. This is to give various people the opportunity to be involved in the teaching and to ensure that my view on a subject is not the only one to be put across. I believe that this is God honouring and is part of my commitment to encouraging the spiritual growth of those attending my corps.

Graeme Smith on January 10th, 2008

In our last corps appointment, I often led discussion based teaching in the course of Sunday evening holiness meetings. We’d always have a very short talk with an opportunity to discuss.

We ocassionally had what we called ‘ask the Rabbi.’ No, we didn’t get a Jew in, we just used the old rabbinic system of people coming to the ‘teacher’ for his understanding of a text or a question. People loved this..they were open to it.

As a result of this, even in the course of a regular preach, we created a culture where people were openly able to add something whilst I’m going for it mid-flow…it was exciting.

Fast forward to my current appointment, people would have a fit if I did that. There would be little response.

What I am getting at is that its not just the preparation or even the opportunity to feedback, its much more to do with meeting people with what they need. In our corps there are some people who need the conversation…we need to create opportunity for that for them.

Andrew Clark on January 10th, 2008

“Isn’t preaching supposed to be teaching?” you ask. To which I reply “No”. Preaching is meant to be thoroughly prepared, engaging, story telling of the Christian story. People love stories - it’s why movies are a billion dollar business. Interactive teaching is a different but related topic.

Grant on January 17th, 2008

At our last appointent at downtown Corps in Helsinki, Finland, we encouraged our congregation to ask qurstions. We had special pieces of paper ready and anybody could write down their question and pass it on and we promised to answer it at the next meeting (sometimes during the sermon).

At the appointment before Helsinki, at the Hospital for HIV+ children we had a game where kids could ask a question and we have to answer it in 3 day, if not - we bring a cake. This was to ecourage them to ask the most difficult questions about life and death etc.

So, my expirience is that questions are very helpful to a preacher as they tell you what people are interrested in.

Yuri Zelentsov on January 17th, 2008

Hi All!

Each comment here is valuable because it gives perspective. Yuri good point. We are asked to meet people where they are, but how can we know where they are without letting them voice their questions and opinions and listening? Grant, yes, preachingisn’t just about teaching, but shouldn’t there be some learning going on in the pews? And without the production values that mass media has at its disposal, how is one way communication going to sustain the attention of those in the pews unless some interaction is brought into the format?

The questions are out there but in the standard sermon format there is no outlet for them.
Thanks

Andrea614Regent on January 17th, 2008

Grant,

Not sure I agree with you. The disinctions you draw between teaching and preaching is one I have heard variations on before, but I’m not sure that it is accurate.

Are therefore saying that teaching shouldn’t be “thoroughly prepared” or “engaging”? When preaching we are nevertheless trying to teach people something; teaching at it’s best is about conveying message, not simply the transfer of information; teaching equips people, preaching equips people…

The lines are blurred I think. Mental shorthand for distinguishing between the two generally comes down to a discussion between methodology and style differences…which I guess is what Andrea’s article was really all about in any case.

My two cents worth.

Geoff Ryan on January 17th, 2008

Teaching and preaching are related but is there really no difference? I have taught on Romans at a our bible college and I have preached on Romans and they are vastly different experiences.

Teaching is easier. Do some research, marshall the facts, arrange them in some coherent order, and explain, demonstrate, model, convey them in a way that helps people remember the information.

Preaching is re-telling the great story of God or at least parts of it. Sharon had a little note on her computer that said ‘the goal of preaching is not education but edification’. Our listeners are not edified just because they have learned some new facts.

Story telling is an art as old as human community. Since history began, people have sat around fires listening to their story tellers, the bards, the jongleurs. Of course, now the fire is a darkened cinema but the effect is the same. In the darkness we still suspend disbelief and step into the story.

Real story telling, i.e. real preaching, takes place when people are caught up in the story, people are moved to imagine themselves in it. Great story telling captures our hearts and fires our imaginations.

Lots of our preaching today is teaching. And it’s OK but we should do better. I’ve taught a few sermons myself and regretted it afterwards, felt that I missed the mark as a preacher.

That’s my two cents worth. And I offer my disagreement in the spirit of vigorous French debate re ideas.

Grant on January 18th, 2008

Grant,

touche - I cry uncle.

Geoff

Geoff Ryan on January 18th, 2008

Since Monday is Martin Luther King,Jr. Day, I would like to think of him as an example. Wasn’t his “I Have a Dream” speech basically a really great sermon? Or, at least it was more along the lines of a sermon than a teaching. It changed America because it motivated, it spoke to hearts. It rallied both the oppressed minorities and many of the white people who had been living in happy ignorance. Children continue to memorize that speech and it continues to inspire people. It didn’t just make people feel good, it caused people to reevaluate their lives and brought about personal and communal change. Just like a good sermon.

I don’t know, Andrea - I’ve heard many a good sermon and seen them cause people to re-evaluate and change. Jesus himself didn’t just teach, he also delivered sermons, and he peppered them with stories, which makes Grant happy. Stories have lasting effect. While there may be plenty of people zoning out in the pew, don’t paint us all with the same brush - there are many of us who are profoundly changed by sermons.

Amy Reardon on January 19th, 2008

You are, as ever, a gracious dialectician Geoff.

G’day Amy!

Grant on January 21st, 2008

Grant has made the distinction clear as he sees it, but in practice, all the I stuff I do is a mixture of both, in Sundays gatherings and in classrooms. And that’s what comes across from Jesus in the gospels too.

Matt Clifton on January 21st, 2008

Just to nuance what I wrote earlier in a hurry:

Grant, your definitions are too polarised for me. Teachers tell stories; we learn things from preachers.

I think I’m with Geoff before he capitulated, except to suggest that all preaching is teaching, but preaching also has further purposes beyond those of teaching. Pull that apart by all means.

Matt Clifton on January 22nd, 2008

Matt,
I think I said in both my comments that teaching and preaching are related. Of course if you preach from Romans you hope people learn something about Paul’s theology or the church in Rome or myriad other things.

However, my initial response was to Andrea’s question where she asked “isn’t preaching supposed to be teaching?” and assumed the answer was yes. I think the answer is no. And I would hope that my preaching is more than a “priest figure standing at the front, telling the rest of us what he/she thinks?”

I teach so that the hearers will learn, I preach so that the hearers, through the power of the Word and the Spirit, might respond.

Grant on January 22nd, 2008

Thanks - I’m probably splitting hairs. We’re singing from the same hymnsheet.

Matt Clifton on January 24th, 2008

Grant:

You said “I teach so that the hearers will learn, I preach so that the hearers, through the power of the Word and the Spirit, might respond.”

Now I’m confused. I thought that the best indicator of learning, is also the ultimate desired response… changed behaviour. But the standard sermon format doesn’t allow for less dramatic, intermediate responses.

Amy:

as for MLK, his preaching was transformative because, I would argue, he had a good sense of where people were and met them there..thanks, Andrea

Andrea614Regent on January 24th, 2008

Dear Andrea, Geoff and Matt,

My apologies. I always think I’m right, that’s my problem (although you would probably understand that, you’d hardly expect me to go ’round saying/writing things I thought were wrong).

I know people don’t always agree with me but I’m always surprised when they don’t (athough my wife says I should be getting used to it by now).

I’m sure I’m not writing this just to have the last word. No matter what anybody else says I will not respond. However …

Andrea, the problem may well be that you and I have a different version of teaching in our heads. I was a High School teacher for ten years and I can assure you that preaching from Romans feels nothing like teaching 15 year old boys the difference between the oboe and the clarinet. To the best of my recollection I never once prayed over the outcome of a music lesson (although in writing that, during some music performances I may have in fact prayed for the rapture to come immediately, sincerely hoping that the student was a born again Christian because I knew that their performance couldn’t possibly continue in heaven because to all intents and purposes it had been a foretaste of hell itself, the endless gnashing of teeth etc. - but I digress) and students kneeling out the front at the conclusion of a lesson was never one of my desired outcomes. To be honest, any changes in behaviour (as opposed to their remembering that the oboe is a double reed instrument and the clarinet a single) were brought about by threats, judicious ridicule and detentions.

And Andrea, are you really confused or is that a euphemism kindly covering that fact that you think I am?

Grant on January 25th, 2008

Grant:

The confusion was all mine. Your clarification of what you meant by teaching made me sad (not because as much light as you make of it you didn’t put prayerful effort into teaching) and but because it rings true. …which is why it made made laugh vigourously in agreement. Although most of us do not associate politeness with adolescence, peer pressure dictates at that stage that we learn to sit there internally insolent toward whatever the authority figure is saying.

The change in behaviour I was talking about was learning to let Christ lead one’s life. Teens are the hardest case. The changes in behaviour are not certain and mightnot come about for some years, but they will only come about if we take the time to find out what they think and to get them to proclaim it in front of their peers.

Coming to think of it, the disengagement in the pews does remind me somewhat of adolescents who, when given the opportunity, stay as far from sermons as humanly possible.

Thanks

Andrea

Andrea614Regent on January 27th, 2008

I was a school teacher before coming into full time ministry. There seemed to be some misconception on teaching and preaching. First of all I would like to say that both have to go hand in hand…. you need the teacher as well as well as the preacher. For clarification can we look at this definition…

Teaching…. we show people how to find God, what is salvation all about, how to find the way, etc. Through teaching we show and inform people of the What, When, Why, Who, How in areas related to God. Teaching through resources found in the Bible. Involves in Researching, reading, analysis, reviewing, evaluating and thinking through on why…how..who.. etc.

But preaching …. is what we tell people of what God has informed us, what He has spoken to us, what His words says,etc. To preach His words we pray and ask for His Guidance of what to say. For effective preaching alot of prayers,spending time with God, listening to His voice and wait upon him for instruction.

Anyway this is my personal opinion…

Thank you.

john umasanthiram

john Umasanthiram on May 17th, 2008

Hi,

let me bounce this off you guys…

Do you think that perhaps preaching is more appropriate as a faith FINDING tool, and teaching is more for faith BUILDING?

Also…as far as there being a lack of good preaching….in my opinion we really need to focus on our strengths. Check the different giftings in Ephesians 4:11… Teaching and Preaching are definitely seperate (and in my interpretation, pastors are also altogether seperate), so why is it that Teachers are preaching, or Preachers teaching, or Evangelists acting as Apostles(Yikes!)?

Thoughts??

Joe

Joe West on May 19th, 2008

Well, my friends I believe whether we preach or teach, both goes hand in hand. It helps to build the foundation to our faith.

As believers we need the preachers and the teachers in our Corps/Church so that our own faith will be built on a solid ground. Also it helps to built the whole group of our people to take the evangelistic approach to take the Gospel to the whole world.

John Umasanthiram

john Umasanthiram on May 21st, 2008

Interesting conversation…

I’m wondering if anyone under the age of 25 is in this conversation or if Andrea asked any of them when she surveyed the pew sitters about their thoughts of the “sermon.”

I’d love to hear what they think because these are the people who have/are checking out of church. Generally speaking, this is happening all across North America (and other parts of the world too). Could it be because this generation is more experiential than rational, mystical than religious, into story and narrative more than propositional truths? They are also more communal than individualistic? And if so, what’s that mean for how we currently do things?

I’m not sure of the answers but maybe if we engage them in conversation then they’ll shape this conversation and tell us how they best engage in the message of Jesus and respond to allow the story to shape their lives.

These are just a few thoughts this conversation has stirred up for me.

Clint on January 23rd, 2009

Clint:

Young people were my inspiration when I wrote this because they are growing up in much more interactive educational and media environments than those of my youth. Kids and young adults today are not as deferential as I remember having to be….from an “old school” perpectives this conversational approach to learning can be seen as disrespect where as I’d say it’s a different mode of engagement.

My thinking on sermons has softened somewhat since then in part because I can see undisciplined interactions as having the potential to promote oversharing..I’m glad though that we have instituted teen Sunday School at my corps during the sermon because it allows our young people to learn in a collegial setting. Perhaps we need to think about the young adult cohort as well.

Thanks

Andrea

Andrea614Regent on January 24th, 2009

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