Why we don’t drink
by Yuri Zelentsov
W
hen my wife and I were corps leaders of the downtown corps in Helsinki, Finland, we had a youth sport club. We played ultimate frisbee and disc golf. We played in the national league and since most tournaments are on weekends we did “the church” thing on the train.
1958 Russian poster: “Don’t drink!”
The conversation would usually start with a question like “Should you always call your own fall” and if you don’t is it cheating and so goes against the spirit of the game? Then it will somehow slide into if there is a difference between “Protestants” and then to “Why bad things happen to good people” and then to God. I had a bunch of 17-18 year olds and it was both challenging and fun to talk about this, especially after they said “You are Christian therefore you know all the right answers to all these difficult questions”. That just blew me away!
One of the “big“ questions was “Why in The Salvation Army you do not drink, even socially?”
I knew the “right” answer - the one you learn during the soldier prep class and then in training college. But since in my family it never was an issue (or never been brought up as an issue) my answer would always sound “dead” since I never had a first-hand-experience.
I work as a chaplain in The Salvation Army prison ministries in Oslo. Our team leader requires me to write a report every week. First I thought it was just too much. What can you possible write every week? But when I began doing so, God kept on supplying.
1958 Russian poster: “No”
Here some true stories which illustrate the dangers of alcohol abuse. All of them are from my current first-hand-experience in the prison.
- 40 years old. Long distance truck driver. After a difficult day of driving from north Russia via Finland and Sweden and through Norwegian mountains he decided to pull over and take a few hours of rest. It was a cold winter night and the old truck’s heater could barely handle the freezing temperatures. So he jumps outside to stretch and exercise. It doesn’t help. Next step – ultimate Russian warming device – yes, vodka. Guaranteed to make you warm after 200 gr. Well, he makes it a double, just to make sure and then just one more “for the truck”. A passing by trucker tells him that there is a motel in a few miles down the road. As he drives to a motel, there is a police check on the roadside. Alcohol test. Prison.
- 32 years old. Unemployed. Mother of three small children. On the cruise ship (or rather drinking ship, since there is nothing else to do but drink and gamble) from Finland to Sweden met another young woman. After a few drinks it seemed harmless to take a package to her new friend’s friends in Stockholm. And the money to do so was a nice bonus. Later they asked her again and again, but when she realized that she was trafficking drugs she had already got so used to having this easy money that it was stupid to refuse. But police were following her from the start just to get them all and they did. Now she is in prison and her children are about to face an orphanage in Russia.
- 19 years old. Young and promising athlete. Went to the bar with s bunch of friends. After a few drinks got into the argument with another minority group. Went to different bar and after refill decided to go back and “teach them a lesson”. Police arrived to break-up the fight. In the process an officer gets a broken jaw (never hit a policeman!) and hell is unleashed! Well, our “hero” is charged with organizing a gang, causing major injuries, attacking a law enforcement officer and sent to prison. His explosive personality causes him problems there too and he spends most of the time in isolation.
The list goes on… unfortunately.
1954 Russian poster: “… and they call us pigs?”
And please, let’s not get into this kind of rubbish: “I know my limits“, “I never drink in public” and “I am smarter then this” or even “Jesus drank too”. It never works.
Doom to those who get up early and start drinking booze before breakfast, Who stay up all hours of the night drinking themselves into a stupor. Isaiah 5:11-13 (The Message)
Writer: Lt. Yuri Zelentsov is a 36-year-old Salvation Army officer. He works as a prison chaplain in the Army’s Prison Ministry in Oslo, Norway. (His wife, Katya, works as a “Slum sister” or as they call it now, at a “Good will center” in downtown Oslo). Yuri visits four prisons on a weekly basis and spends most of his time with inmates from Eastern Europe or post-Soviet Union, who cannot speak Norwegian or English. “We just try to bring some hope to the place of no hope,” he says. “It’s kind of like “614 PHF” prison style.”
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I can’t quite believe I’m getting sucked into the drinking debate again, but I guess I’m a sucker for punishment.
I too work with drug addicts and alcoholics and have heard the horrific stories of alcohol and drug abuse as outlined above.
Let me pose a question;
If as Christians we are called to bear witness to Christ by modelling healthy behaviour, should we discontinue doing anything that anyone else has ever abused, or might it be more effective if we model healthy use of those things that get abused?
Let’s take sex for example. Sex gets horrifically abused every day in tragic ways. Should we in our marriages therefore quit having sex, or would a better way be to model healthy sexual behaviour? (Please Lord, let the answer be option 2)
What about food? North America is overwhelmed with obesity. Should we stop eating in public lest we send a message that we think eating is a sin? Or shall we model healthy eating to our friends struggling with over-consumption? (I being one of them if truth be told) Maybe that one is too close to home with the number of XXL SA uniforms being sold these days.
What have I done?
It really is an inconsistent stance and it has to be because you couldn’t live if you gave up everything people abused.
Oh well, when the mountains drip with wine (Joel 3:18) there will be more for me.
You are not talking about having sex in public, are you? Or are you saying that let’s allow our kids to watch porn as long as the credits say that the people doing it are husband and wife?
And I would say - it does depend on what and how much you eat. I don’t go eating in golden arches just for that very reason.
Let’s get sucked into it! It is better then being sucked out of reality.
Respect
Well, I personally don’t have sex in public. And if you view ‘healthy sexual behaviour’ (the exact words I used in my first comment) as videotaping you and your wife having sex and then letting children watch it, then you might have bigger problems then debating whether or not it is ok to drink.
To take my tongue out of my cheek for a moment, the very notion of the social acceptance of porn, human sexual trafficing, and the blatant saturation of the marketplace in every place we look of sex (have you watched any sitcoms or dare I say it, Christian music videos lately?), leads us Christians to a place of a neccessary response. Should it be that we publicly denounce sex? of course not. That would be silly. To bear witness to Christ would be to demonstrate healthy sexual behaviour and express the pure joy we can have in participating in this wonderful gift given us by God.
Let’s turn back to alcohol for a moment. Alcohol abuse destroys lives. There’s no debate there. But we humans abuse alcohol. Alcohol doesn’t abuse us.
I’ll make it personal to unpack my point. When I was 13 my family was obliterated by alcohol abuse. My reaction to that was to take a stance that I would never drink.
I later realized that this decision gave alcohol power over me. I was essentially in bondage to it as an abstainer. I allowed it to have power when all it is is a substance, a beverage. A created substance. My choice to abstain based on the power I gave it was essentially a form of idolatry. I firmly believe alcohol abuse, as well as abstinance based on giving alcohol power, are both forms of idolatry. We don’t give something that has been created power. All the power belongs to the Creator.
Perhaps this personal anecdote is why I keep letting myself get sucked into this.
And perhaps your casual dismissal of the fact that Jesus did in fact drink was a trigger too. Have we come to a place where SA dogma trumps the life of Christ now too?
Isn’t it more like a Nazarite vow we take for the sake of those we serve? That is, if in fact we serve those who struggle. I don’t drink because it destroys my friends, and their lives. I don’t buy lottery tickets. Because it will ruin my family? No, I could probably gamble without it even cutting into my family’s budget. I don’t do it because I have friends, and we serve those whose lives are destroyed by gambling away their houses etc.
It is more of a meat sacrificed to idols scenario where I don’t do it because of the stumbling block it is to our people. We can argue about our people, but that isn’t where I’m taking it.
Anecdotally? Alcoholic parents saved by grace, and miraculously delivered from alcohol abuse. However, I abstain for the sake of others, our people.
Dion, you aren’t advocating we should considered changing our covenant to allow drinking are you?
Hey Rick,
Nice to see you here.
I haven’t thought through whether I am advocating for a change in the Army covenant. And I’m glad you brought it up because I do find myself disgusted by soldiers who drink. Not because I believe that drinking is wrong. But because it demonstrates a lack of integrity and a complete lack of respect for a covenant that they chose to sign. When my name was on that dotted line that covenant was sacred. In those days some of my friends in the band drank and I found myself not being able to trust them as they were blatantly demonstrating a willingness to lie.
My issue is around the legalism on the topic of alcohol use. As I am no longer a soldier and haven’t been for close to 20 years, I do not have the right to make suggestions about the Army’s covenant.
One last thing; I do have respect for those who choose not to drink for whatever reason. And I will never be found trying to egg someone on to drink who has chosen to abstain. It’s just that sometimes that choice comes with judgement on others and this is problematic. When I was a teenager I honestly believed that if I chose to drink, if Jesus were to come back at that very moment then I was doomed to Hell. It’s this kind of terrible theology that I believe is partially responsible for the mass exodus of people, especially youg people, from the church. Kids start to see that we worship an ideaology, a set of rules, and not a person. Kids start to believe that Christianity is about fear rather than the joy of being in daily communion with the living God.
This breaks my heart and i’m trying my best not to participate in that. Even though I know I screw it up all the time.
Rick, why do you stop at gambling, drinking and smoking? Why not continue the logic to other areas?
The trouble is your all correct.
People’s lives destroyed by alcohol? Yep.
Jesus a wine drinker? Yep.
Disgusted by soldiers who drink? Yep.
Modelling drinking in moderation a good thing to do? Oui (that yep thing looked good after the first question but I’ve quickly grown tired of it.)
So if you are all correct what might that mean? There is no right or wrong answers perhaps?
Maybe the question is a kingdom one. Is there meaning and kingdom value in a community of God’s people living fulfilled lives free of alcohol? Can it be helpful for the recovering alcoholic etc. Yep. Is it the only way? No.
“The kingdom of heaven is not a matter of eating and drinking” said Paul and in fact that chapter in Romans would look very good in this thread. “He who eats meat, eats to the Lord for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God”. i.e if your abstaining or your not abstaining is about God (and as Paul goes on to say) others, it’s all good.
That’s what I think as an ex-barman anyway.
Yuri:
Thanks for raising this key issue. I haven’t witnessed first-hand the kinds of alcohol-fueled horrors that you have but I can tell you many stories of low-grade alienation from God.
But abstinence is just one part of soldiership.
Soldiership is a calling. It’s about being blessed with the means to get closer to God. Answered properly it’s more about prescribed than proscribed behaviours. It’s about a whole new life. We’re all completely dependent on God for everything in our lives and soldiership is one means of recognizing this.
Rick, maybe I’m off base here, but the Nazarite vow is about dedicating one’s life to God, not about being a “role model”. That’s a worthy goal but not the primary goal. Though I guess, if it keeps you from being close with your people then it’s keeping you from God.
Dion, I’d feel more compassion than contempt for soldiers who sneak off to break whatever promises they’ve made. We both know that it’s not a happy journey they’re embarking on.
Dave, I wouldn’t go and sign any covenants any time soon…
Andrea
.
Point well taken Andrea.
I agree.
Dave…I think that the problem of extending the logic to other areas is that, well…it quickly becomes illogical.
I think there is something qualitatively different between overeating, the sex trade and alcohol abuse.
I also believe that a couple of things need to be kept in mind when one has “international” discussions.
Both Dion and Yuri are speaking from deeply personal perspectives and very different contexts. For example, Yuri is a Russian. Drinking is a “russian thing”, yet conservative (Russian) government statistics peg male alcoholism in the country at somewhere around 40% - that means 40% of adult males might be considered clinical alcoholics.
Under the Soviets - and in the present day - other drugs were/are not as readily available as here in the West, so the drug of choice was alcohol and it was - and is to this day - a scourge. Yet not recognized, or admitted, as such.
I was at a meeting once with some Russian doctors and teachers who were concerned that some of the teenage boys under their care (at a naval academy)were possibly smoking pot. We sat around a table discussing this problem with an open vodka bottle in the middle of the table and everyone, myself excluded, was drinking while we talked.
I pointed out that vodka (alcohol) was also a drug and that if some of the teachers (including some around that table) were going to come into work hungover and even drunk, on a regular basis (as happened) then their credibility in tackling the marijuana issue might suffer somewhat. My observations were met with puzzled stares. They simply didn’t make the connection. So, in my mind, our abstinence stance in that context makes perfect sense…as it would for Yuri.
Dion, too, is speaking from a personal perspective of what happened in his family. So his approach - the old grace-law conundrum - is understandable.
The question, in my opinion, is “why not” be abstinent? If one stacks up all the other drugs in the world - from crack to crystal-meth - and details all the social problems and cost in wrecked lives resulting from it’s abuse, and then place those figures alongside that of alcohol…there really is no competition whatsoever. The vaunted “war on drugs” notwithstanding, globally - alcohol outstrips all the rest by a huge margin.
Over-eating is an indulgence…an affliction of the “rich” west. The sex trade / pornography is a symptom of decadence… in which bored and satiated “rich” countries prey on poorer countries. Alcohol abuse - globally - is largely an affliction of the poor.
With which group would you prefer to stand in solidarity?
Hey Geoff,
Thanks for these third party assessments of where Yuri and I are coming from in our different approches to this issue. I appreciated your observations and found them helpful.
I also respect the question “why not be abstinant?” and as I’ve mentioned already, I do have respect for folks who have chosen abstinance. But I still take exception to the legalism that comes with the choice and the judgement that often comes from those who have made this choice to those of us who have chosen otherwise.
If I didn’t know you better I might be offended and tempted to take personally your last question by wondering if you think I do not stand in solidarity with the poor because I choose to (very) accasionally drink.
I think here I will point back to Jesus in this regard. Did He stand in solidarity with the poor?
I obviously wasn’t polemical enough as no-one even noticed my post(which I thought was a gentle reminder that scripture can help us on this point).Therefore I demand that you all read Romans 14 or you’re all wrong.
Grant…though your earlier post appeared before mine, it was not posted by the time I posted…But I think our perspectives are somewhat compatible. Geoff, alcohol can afflict the the rich and the middle class; it can make wealthy families poor really fast. Cigarettes are becoming pretty well a scourge of the poor everywhere. I would hold though that solidarity with the poor, along with role modelling are only sustainable as secondary motivations. Andrea
Sorry for the delay. I see Geoff already chimed in. Dion, absolutely, I find that in many cases there comes a piety that grows out of one’s own convictions, and that drives me crazier than anything. It rears its head in relation to soldier’s covenants, gifts of the Spirit, sacraments, liturgy…I’ve seen it from both sides and all sides.
Dave, I think Geoff addressed the issue quite well. Of course, I wasn’t talking about abstaining from alcohol for all of society, but from the perspective of a soldier’s covenant. I do think, however, a case could be made for the benefit of all christianity abstaining for the sake of others. Again, it’s a meat sacrificed to idols question, and we know that for most, the table isn’t crowded with alocoholics or gambling addicts who might be stumbled by our actions.
Sometimes I think the problem is in a way too liberal western approach to things. It has come to Russia as well. “I have a right to live the way I want and therefor deny any boundaries as they restrict my rights to live the way I want”.
We have a saying that a “word is like a sparrow, once it’s out you can’t take it back”. But it seems to me that we live in time when creeds are rewritten and keeping covenants seems all right as long as it does not contradicts with our right to live the way we want.
I would rather go hungry then eat meat sacrificed to idols, just to make my point. And it is not only my promise not to drink, that I keep to for the last 17 years, that makes me abstain but the evolving destructiveness of alcohol.
Redeem alcohol?! I don’t think so.
Would there be a difference between the redemptive use of pot and the redemptive use of alcohol? How about the redemptive use of crack? Heroin? Crystal Meth?
(They are trying these experiments in my neighbourhood by the by).
NA gets it when they call out alcohol as a drug.
I have many friends who drink socially, and are not addicted. I don’t castigate them for it, nor do I assume that I am in any way more spiritual than they are. But I also love having the conversation with them about marijuana. Usually they ask if I’m ok with them drinking around me. I say sure, and then ask if they would be ok with me lighting up a joint around them. That usually leads to a 3 or 4 hour chat.
I would love to drink alcohol on occasion, just as I wouldn’t mind toking up every now and again. Seems relaxing. But I won’t. Not because that in and of itself somehow makes me pure, but because I have promised, and because I do have many friends for whom one drink or one toke is one too many, and never enough. So as long as they need to maintain the self-discipline to stay away from it, so will I.
Grace,
Aaron
Well put, Aaron. I’ve always considered pot much more benign than alcohol, but no one (in my circles, anyway) argues for the moderate consumption of, or the redemption of, pot, as they do for alcohol.
these kinds of analogy arguments annoy me, actually, because the argument is premised on the assumption that everyone would find the conclusion entirely absurd “because it just is.” but what if i actually think that pot can be redeemed? (isn’t that in essence what the medicinal-use pot activists are doing, in not so spiritual terms?)
obviously the idea is absurd, but not for the reason suggested. sure, pot is not half as bad as alcohol in its deleterious health effects or addictiveness (though wine in moderation is known to do your body good). but it’s a faulty analogy because even though both are “substances” that produce physical “highs” they have entirely different cultural-historical meanings and functions. hence, perhaps, the many wine metaphors in the bible. of course, if everybody picked their drug of choice based solely on comparative scientific analyses of their respective health “benefits,” then our present-day “user distribution” really would be irrational. but obviously, people don’t do that. because all substances aren’t enjoyed for the same reasons.
i would guess that if human-Jesus were here today he’d probably have a drink but not a joint, not because he was ignorant of the medical studies but possibly because he would appreciate the social and cultural meanings attached to each.
the Jesus we follow loved broken people perfectly yet also managed to earn a reputation among some as a glutton and drunkard. how he managed that i’ll never quite figure out, but i do know for sure that he told us to emulate him in the former. romans 14, indeed.
Grace,
You have made some faulty assumptions here. My argument is NOT based on the notion that everyone would find it ridiculous “because it just is”. Exactly the opposite in fact. I have many friends for whom this is the road that makes the most sense, to allow people to use whatever they like - to distribute it freely at health clinics in fact - and to manage the affects of these substances in the same way you might manage a disability. I have “marijuana evangelists” in the cell group I run.
As I said, I am living in a neighbourhood wherein they are trying to “redeem” the use of crack and heroin through safe injection sites and heroin distribution sites. Pot use is essentially ignored here. If the human Jesus were living in my neighbourhood, my guess is that he would be far more likely to smoke a joint than to drink, because it is culturally acceptable to do so and alcohol is so unbelievably damaging here, far more so than pot. I’m relatively certain he would do neither, though, as pot is part of the addictions mix.
Most Christians would, of course, be dead-set against
the approach being used in my neighbourhood, as am I, but many would also be unthinkingly fine with this approach when it comes to alcohol. The above analogy is useful as a tool in pointing out that hypocrisy, nothing more, nothing less.
As I mentioned above, even NA gets it. Alcohol is a drug. We need to at least be honest that if we are okay with its casual use, then we are okay with the casual use of a drug. I believe we need to think intelligently about that issue (ie. not just chanting ‘drugs are bad’), but also that a prophetic stance of abstinence of harmful drugs is a good place to start.
Aaron
P.S. The cultural-historical meanings and functions of different drugs are very different depending on where you are in the world. The fierce opposition to pot but the acceptance of cigarettes and alcohol in the US, for instance, is surely more a cultural issue than not. In most places the cultural-historical effects and functions of alcohol are enormous damage to individuals and families. In other places the use of ganja, pipe, or roots such as kava have aided in the purposes of bringing communities together.
So when you talk about the cultural-historical meanings and functions of one drug as against another, I think you are being too narrow in your cultural history. Unless I am mistaken as to your meaning here.
I love you grace!!! I wanted to respond to Aaron but hoped someone else might take a stab at it. Your response, especially the last 2 paragraphs, articulated what I have felt but haven’t ever managed to be able to say without getting all sarcastic the way I do.
Happy Easter everyone.
Jesus is alive.
Someday, Oh please let it be sooner rather than later, these debates will be a fading memory to all of us.
Dion and Grace,
How is anyone disagreeing with the idea of loving broken people?
I think we are all agreed that this is the desire, abstinence or not. You are surely not making the claim that we can love broken people more perfectly with a non-abstinence stance, just as I am not suggesting that abstinence is the only way to love broken people perfectly. I am saying it is a good way, and one that should be taken out of a desire to love broken people well, rather than out of a desire for personal piety.
Happy Rez day! Jesus is alive, and he is LORD!
Good comments. I appreciate this discussion.
I find it interesting that it is largely SA officers in this discussion that are defending the alcohol abstinence position. No point intended there - it is just an interesting dividing line.
Another thought: Why does every issue have to be about taking a stand between the rich and poor? I don’t see how this issue of alcohol can be addressed helpfully in that context.
i don’t think anyone here is disagreeing with that, aaron. i certainly hope i didn’t imply that. i think grant made the point much earlier in this thread that we are actually all right, because there is not one way or “best” way to go about this. there’s no commandment, we are given only freedom, to be tempered with love and wisdom. possibly dion and i have each encountered some condescension in regards to our non-abstinence, being invested as we are in SA contexts while being non-SA, and this makes us a bit defensive. (thus i find myself in the awkward position of “defending” something i don’t really care much for. but this discussion is getting at deeper issues, like freedom/love… so that’s cool. that’s productive.)
and i agree with you — i too hope christians will recognize that alcohol is a drug and is much less innocuous than society makes it out to be!
on the culture point, what i meant was that many parts of the world have longstanding “wine cultures” (including 1st century palestine?), “ganja cultures” etc. but those would be distinct from “heroin/ crack cultures” — same word, culture, but denoting entirely different phenomena. i guess i see a distinction between alcohol/herbal drugs and chemlab-produced drugs in terms of their historical genesis and cultural functions– the latter having little “culture” or “history” beyond that which surrounds their exploitation and abuse– so i don’t grasp how people could justify that as one continuous slippery slope. but it’s possible that the distinction i’m drawing is superficial or arbitrary, as i really don’t know much about drugs. (and i’m not saying that for the benefit of my CO who’s reading this;))
point taken about contextualization… i think that was also the point i was trying to make. perhaps we should avoid parachuting human Jesus into our various contexts, because we risk crafting him according to our own image when we do that. at least i’m feeling convicted about that. maybe we should just recognize that Jesus in all his wisdom would use his best judgment and know the most loving thing to do in every situation. which, i would venture to say, is what we are all trying to do, in different ways. and even though that sounds rather relativistic i think we actually share a lot of common ground– we probably all agree that consuming X when we’re with people who we know have had issues with X ain’t the most loving thing. sadly, that’s farther than a lot of christians get!
The way to go Yuri, you have received many responses. On the lighter side . driving the SA van, Cathedral City Cal. full of kids grades 1to2 on a field trip after school program, the young spanish kids are very alert. One boy was talking to the others and said hey guys do you know priests can drink beer and smoke but dont have sex how do you know, they asked , my mom has the video. Then the leader said change the subject. Happy Purim everybody PS did you know that in Jewish articles they print G-d instead of God and I asked the Rabbi why, he said you wouldnt walk on a picture of your father would you, so when you finish reading the paper Let my People go, it goes in the garbage an insult to G-d… He finished with a God bless you and Shalom. I know most times Im off the subject maybe the Cal heat is getting to me.Henry
I AM for a change to the covenant. I would remove the direct references to “intoxicating liquor… baneful drugs… tobacco in any form” and replace them with a promise of healthy living / avoidance of ANY excess (God forgive my penchant for cheeseburgers.). This is not because I advocate drinking and smoking and drug use but because they have become the focus. So many soldiers and believers are wrangling with these ‘petty’ issues in comparison to the rest of the soldier’s covenant and/or expectations of a believer. To the individual I say, “If the issue looms so large on your radar, stop obsessing and have a glass of wine for your heart!”(red apparently) But please brothers and sisters, for the sake of the Kingdom, “dedicate all the time, strength, money and influence you can to supporting and carrying on the salvation war”. If we can concentrate on this and the other weighty elements to our service, then I believe we will find these arguments fading away and a correct focus restored. In fact, dare I say, that we might find the real answer to the question by simply asking “Does this help the fight?” and letting the Holy Spirit answer.
Too simplistic?
I agree with Gord. There are far too many rules about what we can’t do - it would be better to focus on a positive soldier’s covenant about what we can do (such as do good deeds, be holy, etc.). I would advocate for getting rid of all the “Can’t Do’s”.
I think drinking is a major stumbling block to growth for the Army worldwide. I saw it firsthand when I was a corps officer in the Republic of Georgia. It also means that by definition full membership (assume that to be soldiership for this purpose) is excluded for most of the world’s Christians. As the Army increasingly becomes comfortable with its ecclesia function (being the outward worldly symbol of church to the members of the inward and invisible Church), than does it not make sense for the Army to welcome all Christians as full members and attempt to minimize stumbling blocks? Or do we just revert to being a small group of militant extra-committed believers and leave the bulk of the Christians to go elsewhere?
My point I guess is that it is about more than just drinking and goes to our ecclessiology. It goes to the heart of what it means to be a legitimate expression of church/body of believers.
As stated by Gord, it is a “petty issue” with which to exclude otherwise good soldiers.
A change would address a practical but very dangerous theological by-product: many soldiers think non-drinking is necessary to salvation. My own children were in shock and disbelief when they first saw a priest drinking wine. They had “learned” to equate drinking with sin. I think that is very unfortunate.
I did not write what I wrote to raise a wave, but it is obviously a hot subject.
After reading all above, all I want to do is repeat the first line of the Lord of the Rings movie: The World has changed…
It makes me think if this is a decadence of western “democracy” or the broad road of the Bible… I am not advocating for the totalitarian style but if we are going to go down this road we will very soon come to the question: Thou shall not kill - sounds very strong, and it is a big DON’T, but maybe I should think more positively and choose who I will kill, colored, communists, Jews etc. just to make a society “better” just to make myself be accepted and look like “normal”.
I don’t like to discuss things, I like to do them. So I called up my friend from that sport club in Finland (see first posting). I asked him: Look, there is a lot going on at one blog after what I wrote about drinking. Should I start drinking socially, do you think? Will this make me more accepted in the community? Will you listen better to what I say as a minister of religion? (I am not an officer, by the way, some people think I am but I am not, well, not yet)
He said: Don’t. You have always been a pain in the a.. for us, but we respect you for that, we need you to be like that, otherwise it will be hard to know where is THE line.