The Devil made me do it…

… or did he?

The modern world has been unsure what to do with the biblical texts around the world of the demonic, and has often swung between total unbelief and a kind of unhealthy over belief. This Areopagus episode - recorded November 1, 2008 - takes us straight to the heart of this territory, to see if there isn’t maybe a sane and reasoned middle way.

In a measured yet engaged presentation Dr. Pierre Gilbert, of Canadian Mennonite University, takes us over some of the key points from his recent book: Demons, Lies & Shadows. A Plea for a Return to Text and Reason published by Kindred Press.

The presentation and questions that followed were recorded at ideaExchange, a monthly church-sponsored public lecture series held in a bookstore in Winnipeg, Canada.

There are three ways to hear this talk and the lively discussion time that followed (runs 1:02:22):

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3 Comments to The Devil made me do it…

1. I thought this was really interesting and I’m disappointed that there are no comments.

   So I’ll have a go at breaking the ice. Sorry if this is not expressed very well - I’m more interested in what other people think.

   I must admit to being a bit wary about the idea of evil (or demons) inhabiting a space. Pierre expresses a view that I probably grew up with. A piece of wood is just a piece of wood.

   But I have good friends who take very seriously the ‘anointing’ of places with oil and the use of symbols (the cross, red to represent the blood of Jesus etc,) in their prayer ministry.

   What does anyone else think?

   Go on, don’t be shy.
Heather on November 27th, 2008

2. Heather,

   I think the pendulum swings to extremes on this particular issue.

   At one end, often people from The Salvation Army generation prior to mine, there is an almost complete denial that demons, possession, oppression, etc exist at all. It is all consigned to a bin marked “Medieval/Catholic/Occult” and thus, suspect.

   At the other end of the spectrum, riding in on successive waves of charismatic renewal and re-renewal, are those who see a demon under every rock, behind every sin and inside most non-Christians (Frank Peretti has a lot to answer for on this one, I reckon).

   The Scriptures tell us that the man (or woman) of God should avoid all extremes, and so in obedience I personally find neither approach all that helpful. I have some issues with the personification of evil, yet have encountered people and problems that without a doubt have deep roots in a spiritual dimension or plane other than the one I inhabit most of the time. Consequently the usual methods aren’t all that effective.

   On the other hand, the obsession with Satan and demons and the spirit world, though ostensibly emanating from a “Christian” perspective, are nevertheless just that, an obsession. Whenever I happen to end up at a charismatic conference, I hear far more references to Satan than I am sure I would hear if I peeked in at a witches convention.

   All too often the songs sung at such gatherings are rife with what I call “statements of intent” - enumerating all the things we (Christians) are going to do to Satan and his minions when we get ahold of them. I don’t sing such songs because I reckon that Satan is a pretty scary guy (or being, or spirit, or fallen angel…or whatever) and that if he is even half as powerful as we suspect, then I’m not sure it would be a good idea to pick a fight with him. Maybe my faith is not strong enough?

   I figure that demons, such as they are (or not), probably thrive on attention, somewhat like germs. And if the apostle Paul, in writing his main theological treatise (Romans), decides to mention Satan only once, and that in passing and near the end of the book, then this might be a good rule of thumb for the rest of us.

   Just a few of my thoughts on the matter.

   Geoff
Geoff Ryan on November 29th, 2008

3. Assumptions are happening more and more and Canada has a history of allot of them. They also export them to avoid the assumptions. For example, that guy didn’t mean to cut that guys head off, the devil made him do it - he was assumed. So, if it’s going to happen, better not in this town.

   The answer is to damn the things doing this. If they are on the earth,they can be burned alive. Lucifer is a coward and won’t show up, so I can burn him easy.

   Satan is an idiot. He wants to run his minions(yup, that’s the space aliens too) and isn’t sure if God’s children are when we have become reflections of lucifer. The only thing Satan is good for is ceasing all existence, maybe what God wants.

   Jesus paid for everything, so we’re not supposed to be assumed. If the things do we can cease them. Jesus’ damning is specific.
BT on January 23rd, 2009

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