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Sewing up old wineskins

Army culture is killing us says Grant Sandercock-Brown

“What are the barriers to the Army’s growth?” the facilitator asked. We rounded up the usual suspects:  lack of officers, no depth of passion and commitment, not enough of this, not enough of that. “Stop,” he said. “I didn’t ask you what was missing. I asked for the barriers. It can’t be a barrier if it isn’t there.”

He clarified with an analogy. Here’s my paraphrase: You are travelling somewhere in your car when unexpectedly, you get a flat tyre. You go to get the jack to fix the flat, and the jack is not there. But you need to be somewhere soon. What is stopping you? It’s not the lack of the jack - it can’t be, since it doesn’t exist. That’s not the barrier. The thing stopping you from achieving your goal is in fact the flat tyre. That’s the difficulty that needs to be dealt with, the problem to be solved.

That changed the discussion immediately. And instead of the usual suspects, we dug a bit deeper. I have been pondering this question in the months since that forum. My conclusion is that the biggest barrier for us as a worshiping community, at least in our territory, is in fact our own culture - or, to be more precise, our love of our Army culture.

For those of us who have grown up in the Army, our deep affection for our culture often stops us asking the right questions. It stops us being innovative. It sidetracks important conversations nearly all the time.

A recent post on this site by Bruce Redman is a perfect example. The item under discussion was brass bands. Many good people leapt to the defence of our bands, pointing out how God had used them. That’s not in dispute. He has. But you see, our love for brass bands can stop us asking the right questions. We should be asking, “What sort of music will be most effective in connecting with the most people in our worship and in reaching the unchurched?” (To which the answer is not brass band music).

Instead, because of our fondness for our own culture, we say things like, “Brass bands can play meaningful music.” And so the question becomes, “How can we make our brass bands as relevant as possible?” It’s not a bad question; it’s just not the best question. You see, not matter how hard I search on my car radio, brass band music is virtually impossible to find. Even conservative, talkback AM radio in Sydney plays classic rock and jazz. The brass bands we love are just too distant from popular culture.

Our territory embarked an on independent survey on all employees and officers in 2005. Our worst attribute by far was innovation and creativity - which is extraordinary when you think how innovative an idea the Army actually was at its inception. But you see, we loved that idea and the culture that we built around that idea so much that we just couldn’t give it up. That’s not a new thing. Our lack of innovation with our music started a long time ago.

In the 1920s, jazz swept the world. By the 1930s, it had bridged the African-American and white American divide. The big bands had arrived and dominated music until the 50s. You would think, wouldn’t you, that all the Salvation Army tenor horn and euphonium players would have immediately sold their instruments and bought saxophones. But they didn’t. In fact, extraordinarily, nothing that sounded the least bit like jazz would be found in a music score published by the Army until the 1970s. I can still remember it. It was the last section of a march called On Parade. It was hugely popular. I mean, it was nice that we were playing jazz at last - it was just a bit late, that’s all. Popular music had moved on to rhythm and blues and then rock’n'roll and then of course the Beatles arrived.

So, in the 70s, while the young people listened to Led Zeppelin or the Eagles or Abba, and the oldies listened to Johnny Cash, Sinatra and Duke Ellington, apart from the occasional cultural aberration like the Joystrings or the odd “rhythm group,” we kept on playing On Parade.

By the 70s, the euphoniums should’ve been given up for guitars - but we just couldn’t do it. In fact, our love for our Army sub-culture was so strong that it distanced us even further from the culture of the unchurched. The Salvation Army - founded on the tunes of the music hall and the pub, founded on innovative culture-bridging methods, founded on ignoring church traditions - looked inwards and back more and more. We weren’t allowed to play non-Army music; no one else could play our music. With the rise of contemporary, culture-oriented Pentecostalism in Australia in the late 80s, the introspection of our culture caught up with us.

Since that time, our attendances have nose-dived from 25,000 to 10,500. It’s to a large degree the baby boomers who have voted with their feet, and rather than argue about music styles and old fashioned uniforms, they have moved in droves to churches whose culture speaks their language in terms of what they wear, what they say and what they sing.

Of course, brass bands are just an example of our Army culture as a barrier and in fact not even the main problem. No corps plant from the last twenty years in our territory has a brass band. (Not that quite a few bandsmen attending these plants didn’t go down swinging.) But they are a reminder that so many of us just cannot give up the Army culture that is so unique and which we love so much, or at least with which we are so familiar, even when we know we should.

It’s not just the music, of course. We have seven divisions in our territory - way too many for a territory of 8,500 soldiers and 10,500 attendees. But we can’t give up our divisions either. For the last 20 years we have needed innovations and options with our uniforms. We just can’t do it. We’re not the least bit innovative and creative, with our new songs, with our structures or with our worship. We haven’t been for a very long time! It’s just so hard to let go of cherished and familiar forms, particularly when God has used them to bless us.

I guess the question for me is this: Is my role as a corps officer to provide familiar worship to life-time Salvationists, or am I in the business of helping as many people as possible connect with God via their culture?

These two options are not mutually exclusive. There is some shared ground. But if the honest answer is the first option, let’s say so out loud and accept our decline, the continuing exodus of our young people, and our limited ability to engage with the unchurched. If it’s the second option, let’s start asking ourselves the right questions, the hard questions, and let the chips fall where they may. If our own culture is a barrier to sharing the gospel, let’s do something about it. To use a different metaphor, we have been desperately sewing up those old wineskins for a long time. It might be time to let a few go.

Writer: Captain Grant Sandercock-Brown is a corps officer at Chatswood Corps in Sydney, Australia. He was a secondary school music teacher for 10 years and loves theology, rugby and golf. His first book From a Middle Aged Dad to a Teen Aged daughter has just been published. His claim to fame is that as a singing telegram man he once sang to Elton John. He and his wife, Sharon, have three children.

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Thursday, April 2nd, 2009 Think

30 Comments to Sewing up old wineskins

  1. We hold on to what is comfortable and familiar to us. It also makes us unique when so many other churches are just copying off of each other. No one wants to come somewhere where they get exactly what is offered everywhere else.

    2. Matt McCarter on April 2nd, 2009

  2. Great article here. I feel the risk is worth taking, but it seems that losing the obstacles could be very dividing. Not only between what to lose and keep, but what to lose first. Everyone has the one thing in our culture that really irks them.

    I wonder though what will happen to our identity as Salvationists as we remove the obstacles. They’ve become so much a part of who we are. Many people would love to fill that hole and reshape our identity in their own way. And that scares me. It seems like quite a double-edged sword.

    3. David Witthoff on April 2nd, 2009

  3. Great article, Grant. The challenge for each generation is to re-present the gospel in colloquial terms while remaining true to the timelessness of the faith.

    As someone who’s been involved in contemporary worship in the Army, I am amazed at just how fast musical trends go out of fashion - I’m finding that even now, my native “style” is behind the times in many places, to many people and age groups.

    Matt Redman talks about the need for a balance between the pastoral and the prophetic. In one sense, we answer a resonant yes to God’s call through Isaiah to “Comfort My people” - that’s pastoral. In another sense, we are called to challenge with new forms and methods. Too much of one or another is unhealthy.

    There’s also a fascinating dynamic between the two:
    • To be entirely “pastoral” robs us of the our effectiveness as “prophets”
    • To be entirely “prophetic” pushes people away from our mission

    When the Psalmist says, “Thy rod and Thy staff they comfort me,” he presents a very complete picture of how the Good Shepherd leads us - both prodding us on and pulling us in.

    I know this doesn’t speak directly to your questions, but I thought it was at least tangentially related, for what it’s worth…

    4. Phil on April 2nd, 2009

  4. I agree with both the article and the comments. I would however (at the risk of sounding like a broken record) question whether it is ’style’ that is holding the ‘Army back, or something else. Yes, the attendances at the ‘Army have dramatically dropped over recent years, but the same can be said of most of the rest of the Church universal. As I have said in other posts, when you look at the congregations that are growing, it seems to have nothing to do with ’style’. In fact, those that do have a ‘contemporary style’ (with a few exceptions such as ‘hillsong’), the ‘contemporary style’ has little more (if any) effect.

    We live in a very different society to that of the early ‘Army. I don’t mean ‘fads’ etc., I mean a very different social culture and structure. We are a global culture now. We are ‘multicultural’. We have (almost) integrated aspects from all cultures in most societies (particularly western societies). Style, therefore, is of little consideration. We are a VASTLY more educated culture. Even the street kids of today are more educated than a lot of the adults were in Booth’s day, and more able to discern if what they are being told ‘rings true’.

    By focussing on ’style’, we are equally being bogged down by the baggage of ‘Army culture, and outdated philosophies etc. I believe what not only the ‘Army needs to focus on, but the church universal, is re-understanding the Bible, God, Theology, the whole box and dice, in light of our current culture, understanding of the world, of each other, etc. That is probably even scarrier than getting rid of brass bands. (but hey, if we do this, we may keep our brass bands and still have booming corps). This has been done at various points throughout history, and we are overdue for this cycle to happen again.

    Yours in Christ,
    Graeme.

    5. Graeme Randall on April 2nd, 2009

  5. I became active in The Salvation Army in the 1970’s. (as a teen) From 1957 to about my teen years I was taken to the Salvation Army. It was one without a brass band. A small corps. It was not until the Jesus Freaks of the 1970’s invited me to a Bible Study in a living room - where we sat on the floor - where we played the guitar - where we open the Living Bible (a contemporary version) that I connected with a Jesus that was interested in me. Then as the Jesus People faded away into history I went back to the youth group at the Salvation Army where we sat on the youth room floor and where we played the guitar - where we opened the Living Bible - and all with the support of a Corps Officer that loved Jesus and loved the Youth of his corps.

    I love rock - Grand Funk and so on - I liked that Jesus connected with my generation in the 1970’s through it’s own style of music. I liked it that my corps officer had enough love and guts to risk reaching out to the youth of his day of service in my corps.

    Now I am a Corps Officer - May God help me to be as loving - as open - as risky - to see the young generation serve Jesus with abandon in their own style - in their culture - in their own fashion. God help us to reach out to the next generation rather than reaching back…

    I am 52 now - God, please continue to raise up visionary youth leaders - dynamic corps - relevant ministry.

    So a mighty Amen! to the theme - premise - and thesis of this article.

    Of course I would not mind the brass band playing “I’m Your Captain” by Grand Funk Railroad!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyF5J7au1jE

    Jay Davis jdjazz@aol.com

    6. Jay Davis on April 3rd, 2009

  6. I am not so sure that our cultural is killing us? In North America the decline in Army attendance and membership is in the same decline as the Baptist, Methodist, Catholic and most other churches. These churches don’t have the brass band, the uniforms, high pastor turnover or are obscure to the public. No I think the church and the Army are in decline in North America because most people simply feel they have no need or dependance on God and that we are not communicating the authentic life of Jesus.

    7. Major Kelly Igleheart on April 3rd, 2009

  7. This is by far a great article. After this article I am reminded by of the verse in Isaiah:

    Isaiah 29:13 (New International Version)

    13 The Lord says:
    “These people come near to me with their mouth
    and honor me with their lips,
    but their hearts are far from me.
    Their worship of me
    is made up only of rules taught by men.

    The question I ask is, “We say we are worshiping or Honoring God at church but are we truly worshiping/Honoring God with our Hearts?” We can play lip service with each other but we can play lip service with God.

    8. Mark Phillips AKA: Da Total Package on April 3rd, 2009

  8. Captain Grant, Also I believe that as believers we must some how come to a commons ground a mid point between tradition and comtempary. You as a leader of God’s flock must be obientent to the moving of the holy Spirit. As the prophet Isaih stated that God wants to do a new thing. I believe in the Army we focus too much on the good old days. The good old days are gone. While we are sitting back doing things as we always have, we are losing new souls. No disrespect to the old souls, but they ain’t going no where. We need to focus on the New Souls.
    Captain Grant I believe that true worship happens when you spend time in worship with God on your own time. If you worship God you can look pass your own personal issues and focus on God. Since I have been spending time in my bible and have personal worship, I get more out of church at the corp. If you don’t spend time on your own with God. How are you suppose to get anything when you are with a group of believers. But, don’t get it twisted as a believer you need to gather with a group of believers….. Captain Grant your main role as leader is to follow the lead of the holy spirit. Not Grandma Salvo who built the corp with her bare hands in the snow…. Who wants to sing to God be the Glory because she always sings that song.

    9. Mark Phillips AKA: Da Total Package on April 3rd, 2009

  9. Graeme, and others,

    I see the comparison to other churches’ decline. But perhaps they have the same problem we do, only with their own aspects of culture. The obstacles in those churches may not be bands or whatever else, but choir robes or organs.

    Graeme has suggested a re-understanding of the Bible, God, Theology. While I agree with the constant need to re-evaluate theology, the “reforming theology” as Mclaren calls it, I find a great danger in tossing out current theology because it doesn’t fit the culture. I know theology has developed and changed over time. It should. And we should reconsider how we apply it to new cultural trends. But while the applications change, certain beliefs in the faith cannot change and have not changed. These issues are critical to our identity, but more importantly to our faith.

    We should keep in the back of our minds that as we eliminate the obstacles that inhibit others coming to faith, that the message of the cross and resurrection has been an obstacle itself since it happened. We may remove all our obstacles, we may explain the gospel of Jesus as best as possible, and people may still reject it. Sometimes we assume that if people just understood the gospel clearly, that they’d all believe.

    Dave

    10. David Witthoff on April 3rd, 2009

  10. I agree that the struggles with style and so on are masking the deeper barriers of why we do what we do. Do we do it to please ourselves? Or are we working for God? We we make the music about us, the clothing about us, etc. we don’t even have to worry about relevance or a lack thereof, but the true worry should be a lack of meaning. The world sees the church sitting there pandering to it’s likes and dislikes whether racial, stylistic, or what not and hiding it’s secret sins all the while coming down on others (and one another, yikes!)without mercy or compassion.

    Who wants to be a part of that? Not even me sometimes. Let’s admit our brokenness and find our focus in the Lord.

    11. Jonathan Taube on April 3rd, 2009

  11. Thank you Grant for a very thought provoking piece of writing. I think we are reaching a crossroads moment when many will choose either the mission (discipleship) to Salvationists or the mission (discipleship) to others.

    Both are needed. But sadly the latter is poorly represented. To attempt both missions together simply does not work.

    In some ways I can see the divergent options already opening up but again all too slowly in terms of the unsaved. I hope and pray for our leaders that they may have the clarity required to recognise, affirm and speed up this process.

    12. Matt Reid on April 3rd, 2009

  12. Well done, Grant! Great article and timely, given the times we live in. I agree with the comment that it’s not necessarily our particular style that we’re hanging onto, but that we’re hanging onto anything at all and not open to engaging our world in a relevant way. I’ve been to some of those other shrinking churches and they are mostly wedded to the styles of their past, singing old hymns accompanied by an organ. Some of our older saints would say, “What’s wrong with that?” Well, if my young adult children went to church there and heard it, they would not return.

    We need to connect to our culture whether or not it’s country music or hip hop. Wherever God has placed us we should love the lost so much that we would be like Paul who was able to change his style to win as many as he could.

    We don’t have to water down the message to bring people in, we just have to find a way to relate to them and speak their language! You wouldn’t go to another country on a missions trip and refuse to try to speak their language! Perhaps we need another pentecost! That way everyone will hear the gospel in their own “language” once again!

    grace…kathie

    13. Kathie Chiu on April 3rd, 2009

  13. Grant:

    Ah, the voice of a kindred spirit and so eloquently stated, as in all of your writings. My next post, already submitted, reinforces what you have written, although not nearly as articulately. How can it be that a Captain and a Commissioner are on the same wave- length? Keep waving the red flag… balanced with the yellow and blue, of course.

    JN

    14. Joe Noland on April 3rd, 2009

  14. I’m not sure how to put this: contemporary Christian music sucks too.

    At the training college in Melbourne, a few cadets started evangelizing and now enjoy a growing attendance at their weekly worship meeting on Thursday night. They pray together and explore the Bible together and sing the same cheesy songs that everyone else does. The converts came because they were presented with the gospel and were apparently convicted by it - nobody has stopped attending or fallen away because of the music, despite it being so lame. They don’t even have a band, they sing along with cd’s - ew!

    Music on the radio sucks too.

    If a corps starts busting out some hip-hop, reggae or ragga, metal, speed metal, death metal, black metal, heavy metal, punk, emo, rap, rock, hard rock, soft rock, indie, power pop or twee pop, I reckon it’ll suck too.

    Christian music is just plain embarrassing. Jesus isn’t cool. God isn’t cool. They’re embarrassing. Their wisdom is foolishness in the eyes of the world and vice versa.

    We need a gospel culture. We need the fruit of the Spirit. We need to be faithful to our covenant. The music sucks and the uniform is strange, but that isn’t the problem. The problem is that throughout the week, you won’t even hear any telling of God’s work in our lives. We don’t talk about it. We don’t pay attention to the renewal of our minds that the Holy Spirit is working in us and so the blessing is gone to waste. We don’t pray for each other. We lie to each other when asked “How’s your soul?” We don’t read our bibles and spend time in private prayer. We don’t have anything to do with our corps folk until Sunday, or possibly some mid-week Bible study. We don’t know what holiness is. We don’t evangelize, we don’t disciple.

    I’m sorry, I’m ranting now. But we’ll never get the music right. Except for Christmas carols. ‘Hark The Herald’ is awesome.

    15. Sean A on April 3rd, 2009

  15. Grant - I love your heart & passion. Your questions are uncomfortable for us aging ‘Eupho’ players who have relished playing ‘On Parade’ & ‘Romans 8′- but asked they must be. In a world where thousands die daily for lack of clean water, where young women and children are trafficked to satisfy the sick sexual habits of middle class whites, whilst a billion people live on less than a dollar a day and millions live without the light of Christ - if we do not ask questions about our capacity to connect with this world in meaningful ways at the expence of our own cultural tastes and norms, we have no right to call ourselves Salvo’s. Brass banding has nothing to do with our mission and mandate, it is purely a sub-cultural phenomena and an issue of musical taste. To pretend it is anything else is at best to descend into irrelevance and at worst and act of idolatry.

    There are other questions that also need to be asked that may impact upon this issue. The noted theologian and acadmeic Dr John Drane comments on the churches current positioning within society and asserts that the ‘real gap’ is not that we are not relevant enough but rather that we are not spiritual enough. In a western society hungry for spiritual reality, the need is for men and women of depth and spiritual potency. This is where I think the issue of holding onto our Roots becomes very important for our movement. Our Holiness Roots, with it’s defining passion for holy living that is marked by the character of Christ, may be the place that we can rediscover our missional edge.

    This is not about shallow ‘pietism’, God save us from more years of insipid Pharasee-ism that focussed on a few external behavioural norms but often left the inner man/woman unchanged. I sense the great need of our day, our movement, is for potent lovers of Jesus, who have the courage to confornt their own brokeness and march vulnerably on their knees, to the place of ultimate surrender. Men and women who hunger and thirst after justice, righteousness, mercy and redemption in our world and are willing to live a life of irrational commitment to our God. This will result in not only changed people and communities but changed questions. When you have looked the dying and hopeless in the face and clung to the deperate victims of abuse and injustice as they shake uncontolably in your arms - questions of musical taste become largely irrelevant.

    I am not yet one of those people but I desire to be. I hunger for something deeper than my evangelical/charismatic Salvo life has brought me to thus far, I have tasted on occassions it’s wondrous capacity, I have glimpsed it’s glorious possibilities of enabling me to become the kind of man whose life ‘draws’ others to Jesus, but I am not there yet. I sense that if asking the questions of how we become those kinds of people were to dominate our in-house cultural debates, we would worry less about musical genre and more about a lost world.

    Only the blind or agenderd can believe anything other than the temrinal decline of English 1950’s conservative Salvationism as a force within our world. Only the naieve and cynical believe though, that, that means the end of our Movement. God has no love for the institution known as The Salvation Army, but has an insatiable passion for those of us who choose to gather around that family as a means for reaching the lost. As one sub-culture of Salvationism dies so another is and will continue to arise, such is the consistent story of the church of Jesus Christ.

    The current zietgeist of our world presents us with an almost unprecedented opportunity to live powerfully and authentically for Jesus. This generation have an openess and are asking questions that the last 2-3 generations could only have dreamed of, we must not, we dare not miss the moment.

    For those who love brass music I say ‘good on ya’, keep playing and play it well and as you do so reach out to those who share your love for that culture of music within the brass banding fraternity, they deperately need Jesus - but please, we beg you, do not impose a ’style’ on a wider commuity who have other tastes - remember, this is not about us. We, are not thhe point of our lives ‘He Is!’

    So Grant thank you for the debate and your courage.

    Stay hungry.

    Phil

    (I am hopeful that in just a few weeks time we will witness the passing of another dying culture - Australian dominance of Cricket, as the Brits win back the Ashes!!)

    16. Phil Wall on April 3rd, 2009

  16. Thanks for the message and comments. Being a lifelong Sallie, and an older one, I have the joy of seeing hope right under my nose–in our youth. When I was a teen and young adult, the divisional youth band and working at camp kept me in the Army, purely because of the peer fellowship. But like many in my generation, I was a cultural Christian and Salvationist. There was little real discipleship going on, and I did not seek to be discipled on my own–not till later in my adulthood. How different it is today! Yes, we are shrinking in so many areas, yet the youth of today have more passion for Christ than I ever had at their age–and many of my generation agree. So perhaps all of us, old band and songster members, home leaguers, whoever–could actually consider taking Titus chapter two to heart and start mentoring and encouraging these awesome youth! We should be bringing them alongside us in our ministries and training up our replacements. And the question we should be asking ourselves is this: I am so in the Word and desiring to worship the living God, that these youth–and everyone–sees Jesus in me?
    Now here is the challenge: these young Salvationists are looking to do a work for the Lord. We can either encourage and disciple them or send them away. Bands may well go the way of the bonnet, and if they go they go. Proclaiming His praise will always be our mission, whatever form that takes.

    17. Chris Shay on April 3rd, 2009

  17. 4 step plan for bypassing all this rigamarole:

    Press into Jesus.
    Listen to His heart.
    Pick up your tool of choice.
    Communicate what you’ve heard.

    And don’t be fussed if most people don’t “get it” - you’ll be in good company with the prophets and apostles. Just keep the channels of communication clear between you and the Father.

    18. Jeremiah on April 4th, 2009

  18. Thanks for a great article. My husband and I planted a new church 3 years ago in our community. Some who have come just to visit comment…”But you can’t really tell this is The Salvation Army…” This makes us smile, really! The people who God has brought to us have come from the neighbourhood and are attracted to a casual and relaxed gathering where they can connect with God and with each other. When they ask the denominational question they are delighted to know that we are The Salvation Army. They respond with the usual comments… “we didn’t know you were a church” ….”we thought you just helped poor people”….
    “we thought it was for people who wear black suits” etc etc
    Being current and contemporary does have it’s rewards. Old sterotypes can’t keep people away if they are not in place. There’s a whole 2009 world out there who are needing a place to find Jesus and His followers, let’s keep finding new ways to facilitate those connections.

    19. Penny Armstrong on April 4th, 2009

  19. Phil Wall continues to hit the nail on the head. He’s so right on with this stuff.

    Regarding the 4 easy steps, what on earth does it mean to “Press into Jesus?” And how would I go about listening to His heart? I guess I’m one of those who just doesn’t ‘get it’.
    Dion

    20. Dion Oxford on April 4th, 2009

  20. Great article, I like the focus on barriers instead of things that do not exist. A much needed shift in perspective from the common arguments.

    An interesting note in thinking about the comments:
    I recently heard the following from someone who just began attending our corps in the last 5 months.

    “High Point is a perfect combination of the Salvation Army and the Pentecostal church. Mission-based AND great music. The Salvation Army is usually known for their crappy music, and traditional hymns but this one is totally different. Their music is awesome. It’s amazing…”

    What struck me in hearing this is how often I still hear Salvationists say we are known for our music. Ask around outside of the brass band culture, and you might stop touting the fact that we are known for our music. It may not be a compliment after all.

    Looks like the use of secular tunes and modern music styles in our corps is paying off. To God be the Glory!

    21. Peter on April 4th, 2009

  21. Hey Dion! I didn’t mean to be cryptic - are you sincerely asking what I mean, or did you just not like my 4 steps. :) I’m going to assume it was the first…

    “Pressing into” Jesus means getting close to Him, developing the relationship with Him more and more by reading His word (the Bible, and, specifically, His words while He walked the earth as a man), meditating on Him, and walking (living a life) in the light (the revelation of who He is and how we should be). When we let the Holy Spirit speak to us through His word and personally, internally (those who have Christ’s Spirit are His, according to Scripture, and Jesus Himself said that those who are His will hear His voice), we are listening to His heart. We find out exactly what His heart beats for. (Of course, we use anthropomorphism to help us grasp in human terms how God is.)

    Actually, from the little I know about you, I would think you are someone who DOES “get it” - maybe we are just speaking different dialects? ;) Unless of course - and I am by no means saying this is true, only God knows our hearts - you are one who is outwardly witnessing to the truth of the Gospel, but have no personal experience of it yourself. I am guessing this is probably not the case.

    The “rigamarole” to which I was referring - and dropped the ball on being clear - was not the article or the comments that followed. I think it is helpful to critique and evaluate our methods for spreading the message of Jesus’ love to everyone we meet. At some point it has to become personal - and I think the 4 steps I mentioned are going to help a lot of people who may feel overwhelmed by the need to be “relevant”.

    I am not going to be “relevant” to every person I meet or attempt to communicate to. To an extent, I can adapt and find new ways of sharing the gospel. At the same time, God has made me who I am for a reason, complete with unique personality, gifting, talents, and the like. When we “press into Jesus” and “listen to His heart”, we can know that He will use us as He’s made us (and re-made us) to share His heart with others through our native (super-native?) giftings and learnt tools.

    Thanks for your feedback. Much grace and every blessing to you in Christ,
    J

    22. Jeremiah on April 4th, 2009

  22. Hey Jeremiah,
    Way to ‘heap burning coals on me’:) I admit I was being sarcastic and apologize for that. I guess I’m weary of ‘Christian-eze’ like “pressing in on Jesus”, and I have my own baggage around that, but it was unfair to direct that at you.

    I did know, or assumed I knew, what you meant by it and greatly appreciate your kind and encouraging response to my over the top reaction.

    We’re not so far apart I don’t think.

    Much respect,
    Dion

    23. Dion Oxford on April 4th, 2009

  23. Grant,

    WOW! Thanks. A lot to think about and act on. In reading your article, I felt a bit like David must have when confronted by Nathan; “You are the barrier, Rob”!

    24. Rob Birks on April 9th, 2009

  24. Amazing how our God moves by His Spirit to reveal His intentions for us to be equipped for the cause of redemption.
    I am grateful to God and those who hear His voice. You said what must be said throughout the entire body of believers. I have so much to add but only wanted to say, ‘Thank You and Thank God for this message!’

    Thanks for saying what must be said so that we stay close in our worship to God in order to hear and do what He is telling us at this time.

    A fresh message of redemption, spiritually relative to this war torn culture is truly God on time with the answer.

    May the Lord continue to equip us for the battle.

    Damion

    25. Damion Beverly on April 11th, 2009

  25. I fully agree. I am the Assistant Corps Officer at the USS Atlanta Temple, one of the most traditional corps in the territory. It is full of many retired officers and older people. I however am 28, in touch with culture and question a lot of the things the Army does. I recently asked an officer friend why we do so many things in the name of tradtion. If what we do is not effective, why do we continue to do it. Why are so many salvationists afraid of change and innovation. Isn’t our goal and purpose to save the world? To do this shouldn’t we relate to the world?
    Thank you for your blog. I appreciate knowing that I am not the only one that feels this way.

    26. Jimmy Taylor on April 11th, 2009

  26. We could substitute many parts of our cultural for band and have the same problem. Why not do away with the sermon? Lets make it a TV style show instead because that is where the world culture is. Add the language of the modern culture (as crude as much of it is) because that is where they are and what they understand. We can really do ourselves some damage when we do that.

    As a lifelong bandsman, I have loved the Army bands. I miss it when I am stationed in a Corps that does not have a band. I do not insist that we have to have a band or else. But I am in a Corps now where I have about 20 young people who are begging to learn brass and play in an Army band. These are active young people who hear the gospel spoken and see this as another way to worship God, express themselves, and even reach others. Music is not the problem, but what we are presenting to people in the way of the gospel and a life changing experience. Whether it is brass, or rock, or rap is not the issue. What is the message it is sharing? I have taught my sons a lesson I learned as a young bandsman. I keep my song book on my stand whenever I play. I can tell you the words associated with the melody in a hymn tune or march or selection. I know the message behind the music, and that is what we need to be sharing. The style of delivery will not attract everyone, but the message of Jesus will draw all men.

    Marshall McLuhan had it wrong when he said “The medium is the message.” In reality, it is the message that is all important, not the package it is delivered in.

    27. David E. Craddock on April 15th, 2009

  27. When I saw the link to this article on my Facebook, my first response was to skip over it thinking it would be more Army “stuff”. I am so glad I didn’t. You have said in your outload voice what needs to be said, and I thank you for having the courage to do so.

    I am a third generation Salvationist, and my husbands family was part of the Christian Mission. We belong to the group who have spoken with our feet. I stopped defining myself as a Salvationist long before that. Christ follower is what I am. Isn’t that what we should be - not followers of a denomination or movement, but of the God we serve? Isn’t it the individual as part of the body that makes the difference? It’s each of God’s people doing life as His followers that speaks. It’s not about relegion, it’s about relationsip - our relationship with God and our relationsip with others. It’s walking the talk day in and day out in a consistant faith based lifestyle.

    Music styles will come and go. Booth chose the style of his day to get people in the doors to hear the message. We should continue to use that philosophy in order to attract the unchurched, unknowning masses of people that it is our responsibility to reach. We need to be in touch with our continuously changing society, teach from the unchanging Word of God and love both the saved and unsaved like Jesus would.

    It is not just the Army that has lost the plot, as many others on this string of comments have stated. Perhaps we of Army background feel the sting more because of the realization that the Army is caught up in so many traditions of its own making - church traditions that Booth was so against. The focus on reaching the unsaved has been lost (or at the very least diluted) and the Army has become what William and Catherine broke away from. It’s time to stop looking in and start looking out again.

    28. Eleanor McCaughey on April 15th, 2009

  28. I personally dont think (that I think) that we are declining because of our culture necessarily. Sure there are places all over the army where we are seriously out of touch with the culture. But I think that Major Igleheart is onto something when he talks about other churches (denominations) on the decline as well, without the brass bands and uniforms. And that it has something to do with us missing the authenticity of the message of Christ.

    We along with others in North America are on the decline i think because somewhere along the line the message of Jesus has been either unintentionally distorted or intentionally watered down.

    The truth of the matter is every church deals with the tendency and struggle of falling in love with their own culture. whether that be the traditions of The Salvation Army’s Brass bands and songsters, uniforms and programs OR the “relevant movie theater/warehouse church” with their cool clothes and rock star worship bands.

    We start out as passionate revolutionaries working so hard to create what we believe to be the best (or just better than them over there) way to live out the gospel and end up the most passionate traditionalists because we want to protect what we worked so hard to create.

    And somewhere in that process we become something that is exclusive and divisive rather than inclusive and unifying.

    When I think about why our churches are on the decline I think of a quote by Shane Claiborne in his book The Irresistible Revolution:

    ” I had a college professor who used to say to his students, ‘the world is full of people who tiptoe through life, just to arrive at death safely. So dear children, run, jump,skip, hop, just dont tiptoe.’ I’ve seen way to many would-be radical followers of Jesus fall to the wayside because they’ve not been invited to take part in revolutionary living for the cause of Jesus. When I was a youth pastor I had a boy who had recently given his life to Jesus. Not 2 weeks later he was busted for doing acid in school. A little disappointed i went up to him and asked, ‘what happened bro’. He shrugged his shoulders and said ‘I dont know, I just got bored.’ God forgive us for the amount of people we lost because we’ve made the gospel of Jesus boring! I believe if were losing people to the culture of drugs and materialism, violence and war, its because we are not daring them, not because we aren’t entertaining them. Kids grow up wanting to be heroic. Thats why they play video games and join the military. But what are they supposed to do with a church that teaches them to tiptoe through life, just to arrive at death safely.”

    Our decline has less to do with whose message is more relevant to today’s culture and more to do with the fact that our message and structure so often seem to contradict the very message of Jesus we claim to live by.

    ” ‘The multitude of your sacrifices__what are they to me?’ says the Lord. ‘I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats….Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations_I cannot bear your evil assemblies. Your New Moon festivals and your appointed feasts my soul hates. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them….Stop doing wrong, learn to do right! SEEK JUSTICE, ENCOURAGE THE OPPRESSED. DEFEND THE CAUSE OF THE FATHERLESS, PLEAD THE CASE OF THE WIDOW.”

    Isaiah 1:11,13-14,16-17

    Jesus spoke on behalf of the poor, the forgotten, the rejected, and the outcasts. In Gods kingdom, he said, the last are first. In Gods kingdom ones status is determined by how one treats the least of these.

    Beyond where the building may be, as long as our church going people cannot relate to the poor because they live “20 miles across town” and move beyond charity into relationship we will cease to understand and live out the authenticity of Jesus and his message.

    “lets keep growing smaller and smaller until we take over the world”

    29. Booth Jewett on April 15th, 2009

  29. This is the first SA article I’ve read since leaving the SA & church 6yrs ago, having been a SA soldier & employee for 11yrs full-time.I think this whole level of introspection, although written cleverly, maybe the fundamental issue for the SA - who know’s? All i can reflect upon is that in the 6 yrs having been away from the SA & church is that only one SA mate in that time has ever made contact, engaged me and challenged me about Jesus stuff(cheers Shar). I find that ‘interesting’, maybe others were/are too busy trying to ’sort the SA out’ to have time to pick the low hanging fruit like myself. Again who knows? Maybe Ive just been blind & deaf to others & Jesus.
    Kia ora AJ (40yr old disenfranchised).

    30. AJ on June 24th, 2009

  30. Greatness is not a function of circumstance… greatness is largely a matter of conscious choice and discipline.
    – Jim Collins (Author of Good to Great)

    Grant wrote:

    “Is my role as a corps officer to provide familiar worship to life-time Salvationists, or am I in the business of helping as many people as possible connect with God via their culture?”

    I believe that the volume of replies above leans towards addressing the 2nd question as the major concern to address. (I . too, agree with this investment)

    WOW… some amazing thought has been shared to date… yet we’re kind of going around in circles at times.

    Phil Wall states many of the core issues well… and like him (“I have glimpsed it’s glorious possibilities of enabling me to become the kind of man whose life ‘draws’ others to Jesus, but I am not there yet”)… I soooo desire to be a man like this.

    At the end of the day… much of the issue WE deal with as Salvos comes down to 2 major areas of our lives:

    1) The Church (Corps) Body

    How do we live out live as a body of believers as presented to us in the New Testament time and again?

    Booth Jewett stated above “We start out as passionate revolutionaries working so hard to create what we believe to be the best (or just better than them over there) way to live out the gospel and end up the most passionate traditionalists because we want to protect what we worked so hard to create. And somewhere in that process we become something that is exclusive and divisive rather than inclusive and unifying.” – THIS IS A DEAD ON ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of the reality we find ourselves in today.

    … that being stated… the second major area has been even MORE difficult to address… particularly here in the west:

    2) The Corporate (Business) Body

    Like it or not, much of the “work” we accomplish today goes through business style filters. More and more decisions are being made based upon a world view that reviews litigation, governmental law / contracts / influence, top-down hierarchal structures, etc. as the MAIN filters for how to get from point A to point B in our work.

    I don’t see this second area being influenced by the first anywhere NEAR THE LEVEL THAT IT SHOULD. I’m sorry if this offends… as its not meant to… it IS meant to be presented as PART of a discussion trying to find an answer in our times.

    As this 2nd area will NOT disappear … then addressing it is key.

    The first quote I started this comment with is a central idea from an AMAZING WORK… entitled:

    GOOD TO GREAT by Jim Collins — This book addresses a single question:

    Can a good company (organization) become a great company(organization), and if so, how?

    Based on a five year research project comparing teams that made a leap to those that did not, Good to Great shows that greatness is not primarily a function of circumstance; but largely a matter of conscious choice and discipline. This book discusses concepts like Level 5 Leadership, First Who (first get the right people on the bus, then figure out where to drive it), and the Flywheel. (read more at: http://www.jimcollins.com/article_topics/articles/good-to-great.html)

    I’ve personally gone through this work 6 times now… and find myself needing to do it again. In BOTH the “body” areas I’m speaking to here… a VERY interesting concept from Jim’s work is worthy of consideration (discussed at greater length in the link above):

    First Who… then Where

    Simply put — get the RIGHT people ON THE BUS, the WRONG people OFF THE BUS… and the RIGHT people in the RIGHT seats.

    Jim states: “When it comes to getting started, good-to-great leaders understand three simple truths. First, if you begin with “who,” you can more easily adapt to a fast-changing world. If people get on your bus because of where they think it’s going, you’ll be in trouble when you get 10 miles down the road and discover that you need to change direction because the world has changed. But if people board the bus principally because of all the other great people on the bus, you’ll be much faster and smarter in responding to changing conditions. Second, if you have the right people on your bus, you don’t need to worry about motivating them. The right people are self-motivated: Nothing beats being part of a team that is expected to produce great results. And third, if you have the wrong people on the bus, nothing else matters. You may be headed in the right direction, but you still won’t achieve greatness. Great vision with mediocre people still produces mediocre results.”

    I believe this is a core issue that Grant contemplates so well in his article above.

    We as humans live in a half dimension of time… meaning we can only move FORWARD. This is not to say that where we have come from has no connection to our TODAY and TOMORROW experience… in fact, our heritage is very important… YET THE FACT REMAINS… we can ONLY move ahead.

    In the season we find ourselves in… aren’t the most important questions:

    How we will follow both the Great Commission and the Great Commandment?

    How will Salvos express as unique body parts… unique members of the universal Church… God’s love for humanity and show them our obedience in our love for one another?

    Brothers and Sisters… we DO NOT have to “like” each other. We DO NOT (and will not) “like” all the choices we make (from style of worship, style of leadership, style of preaching, etc.) … we DO however… need to “love” each other. It is with this love that I present these passionate thoughts and pray you invest more in finding corporate / body answers to these questions.

    I have soooooo much hope for today and tomorrow. Thank you each soooooo much for investing in this process… laboring through it with a hope that is truly amazing.

    imMEDIAtely yours,
    Errin Hogan

    31. Errin Hogan on June 24th, 2009

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